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Real life experience v/s. Theories - Salt (Sea,Himalayan,Table etc.) in CP soaps

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Vaibhav Jain

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Hello guys, myself Vaibhav (a 3 years old soap maker ;)) and i'm from India, "Namaste"

Guys here at "SMF" some of us (members) are beginners, some are at intermediate level (like me) and some are at Pro level but one thing which I feel is common among us is hunger for knowledge.

Therefore, I'm creating this thread where each of us can share his/her knowledge and real life experience .

So guys please share your experiences about various salts like Table (sodium chloride), Pink Himalayan, Sea etc. in CP soap making like usage rate (as % of oils), effect on trace (early or suspending), quality of final soap, other usage like to harden the soaps.

Thank you
 

Primrose

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Hi there Vaibhav, welcome :D

I am a fairly new soaper myself, but I think you'll find lots of information about this is already captured on the forum, and would be available using the search function. Salt bars are quite popular on the group and have been discussed a lot

Unless you have specific questions?
 

Vaibhav Jain

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Actually I'm looking for the way to use table salt (sodium chloride) to make my salts less dissolve in water.
 

earlene

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Actually I'm looking for the way to use table salt (sodium chloride) to make my salts less dissolve in water.
Do you mean so your soap won't dissolve so quickly?

If so, it really will depend on your recipe. High Coconut Oil soaps dissolve quickly, so using lower percentages of CO is one direction for longer lasting soap.

ALSO, how you store your soap between uses has a huge impact on how fast it 'melts' while in use. Soap that is allowed to dry completely between uses lasts a lot longer than soap that sits in a puddle the whole time.

Salt will harden your soap, but it won't make it less likely to melt if it sits in a puddle of water. Salt will draw moisture towards itself, so if you live in a very humid area, and use a high percentage of salt in your soap, you may actually see beads of moisture collect on top of your soap.
 

Vaibhav Jain

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Do you mean so your soap won't dissolve so quickly?

If so, it really will depend on your recipe. High Coconut Oil soaps dissolve quickly, so using lower percentages of CO is one direction for longer lasting soap.

ALSO, how you store your soap between uses has a huge impact on how fast it 'melts' while in use. Soap that is allowed to dry completely between uses lasts a lot longer than soap that sits in a puddle the whole time.

Salt will harden your soap, but it won't make it less likely to melt if it sits in a puddle of water. Salt will draw moisture towards itself, so if you live in a very humid area, and use a high percentage of salt in your soap, you may actually see beads of moisture collect on top of your soap.
Yes I got to know recently that CO soaps dissolves quickly and changed the usage of CO from 80% to 25% and introduced palm oil @50% and it helped but still my soaps don't last long as commercial soap like this do.Screenshot_2019-07-11-01-15-26-649_in.amazon.mShop.android.shopping.jpg Screenshot_2019-07-11-01-15-26-649_in.amazon.mShop.android.shopping.jpg
 

Obsidian

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Homemade soap will never last as long as commercial soap. They are pressed, shredded and pressed again.
It makes them very hard and dense. There is no way to reproduce this at home.
 

dixiedragon

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Might be worthwhile to weigh a bar of commercial soap and compare it to the same volume of homemade soap.

All things have a trade off. I think the quality of homemade soap has one tradeoff of being not as long lasting. Also, I have read that commercial soap companies strip out the glycerin from their soaps and sell it, because it has value. Glycerin attracts moisture to skin. It is part of what makes handmade soap so nice, but also decreases it's life span. I think it makes soap less shelf stable, and also makes it get used up faster. I would guess it also makes it dry out slower.
 

Vaibhav Jain

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any explanation why this bar is so water resistant or lasts long?
please forward to 3:19
 

dibbles

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@Vaibhav Jain the video says the soap lasts about 30 days with normal use. If normal use is one person using it for one shower each day, that is approximately how long my soap lasts, although my bars are bigger than those. I don't know exactly what you mean by water resistant, but keeping it on a soap lift or mat so it can dry out will make a big difference in how long your soap will last.
 

Vaibhav Jain

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@Vaibhav Jain the video says the soap lasts about 30 days with normal use. If normal use is one person using it for one shower each day, that is approximately how long my soap lasts, although my bars are bigger than those. I don't know exactly what you mean by water resistant, but keeping it on a soap lift or mat so it can dry out will make a big difference in how long your soap will last.
please see @ 3:19. they've placed bar under shower but still it's not melting or dissolving.
 

dibbles

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please see @ 3:19. they've placed bar under shower but still it's not melting or dissolving.
I did watch that. It shows the bar with water running over it for a few seconds - mine behave the same way. If I were to leave it under running water for an extended period of time (hours), it would probably show some signs of eroding, as would theirs. Does your soap noticeably dissolve when water hits it for a few seconds?
 

earlene

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I really see no real difference between the goat milk soap in the video and most of the homemade soaps I make, in terms of longevity.
I think the question should be more along the lines of:

What changes do I need to make to this recipe to make it last longer in use? AND then provide the specific recipe.

But what might make the Goat's milk soap in the video last longer than your soap recipe? The actual recipe, as I mentioned before. They use Palm oil, Palm Kernal Oil, Cocoa Butter, Coconut Oil, Soybean Oil (but it looks like hydrogenated soy, probably a soy shortening, perhaps - not the liquid soy oil), Olive Oil (or liquid oils "like Olive oil") and in some specialty soaps, also Shea. The actual percentages of each of these oils is not indicated, but that's what determines longevity of the soap. High Palm, High Cocoa Butter and if the soy is actually hydrogenated Soy or what is known as soy wax, these all tend to increase the hardness of the bar. That alone does not necessarily mean a longer lasting bar, as you have learned with C.O. but the combination and the percentages used contribute to the desirable attributes of the soap.

So if you would list your recipe and describe what it is you are trying to achieve, that would help with trouble-shooting.
 

Vaibhav Jain

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I really see no real difference between the goat milk soap in the video and most of the homemade soaps I make, in terms of longevity.
I think the question should be more along the lines of:

What changes do I need to make to this recipe to make it last longer in use? AND then provide the specific recipe.

But what might make the Goat's milk soap in the video last longer than your soap recipe? The actual recipe, as I mentioned before. They use Palm oil, Palm Kernal Oil, Cocoa Butter, Coconut Oil, Soybean Oil (but it looks like hydrogenated soy, probably a soy shortening, perhaps - not the liquid soy oil), Olive Oil (or liquid oils "like Olive oil") and in some specialty soaps, also Shea. The actual percentages of each of these oils is not indicated, but that's what determines longevity of the soap. High Palm, High Cocoa Butter and if the soy is actually hydrogenated Soy or what is known as soy wax, these all tend to increase the hardness of the bar. That alone does not necessarily mean a longer lasting bar, as you have learned with C.O. but the combination and the percentages used contribute to the desirable attributes of the soap.

So if you would list your recipe and describe what it is you are trying to achieve, that would help with trouble-shooting.
ok... firstly thank u for such a generous response.
i'm trying to set a recipe where my priorities are
1. long lasting & leather
2. cleansing, conditioning etc.
but the main problem is I have access only to these oils - coconut, palm, castor, rice brain, soybean.
so what should be the desired ratio of these oil to set a recipe that fulfills my priorities.
 

newlee

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Actually I'm looking for the way to use table salt (sodium chloride) to make my salts less dissolve in water.
I actually make a hardening liquid, which I use as a replacement for water, that has both salt and vinegar (only 2%) and I get a nice hard bar that lasts. Not as long as a commercial bar but it's good.
 

Dawni

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ok... firstly thank u for such a generous response.
i'm trying to set a recipe where my priorities are
1. long lasting & leather
2. cleansing, conditioning etc.
but the main problem is I have access only to these oils - coconut, palm, castor, rice brain, soybean.
so what should be the desired ratio of these oil to set a recipe that fulfills my priorities.
Kaise hain, Vaibhav? :)

All the oils you have make good soap, with the right recipe. Palm makes a hard bar. I've not used it but many do. I regularly use rice bran between 15-30%, castor at 5-7%, and coconut between 15-20%. Play around with similar numbers in any soap calculator and add your palm and soy and try it :)

Personally though, I use butters to harden soap. Cocoa, shea, mango.. Kokum should be available to you there, mango too (and cheaper than here lol). I also use salt and vinegar in varying amounts (still experimenting).
 

Vaibhav Jain

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Kaise hain, Vaibhav? :)

All the oils you have make good soap, with the right recipe. Palm makes a hard bar. I've not used it but many do. I regularly use rice bran between 15-30%, castor at 5-7%, and coconut between 15-20%. Play around with similar numbers in any soap calculator and add your palm and soy and try it :)

Personally though, I use butters to harden soap. Cocoa, shea, mango.. Kokum should be available to you there, mango too (and cheaper than here lol). I also use salt and vinegar in varying amounts (still experimenting).
me thik hu .... aap kaise ho :)
what do u say abot a recipe which has these results (though not prepared a batch yet) from an online lye calculator.
upload_2019-7-15_23-46-46.png
 

Dawni

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me thik hu .... aap kaise ho :)
what do u say abot a recipe which has these results (though not prepared a batch yet) from an online lye calculator.
View attachment 40308
I think it's good... Only that you might find it too drying with that high a cleansing number. Just compensate with a high enough superfat or lower your coconut.

Mine usually gives me between 11-15 so I also superfat lower.
 

earlene

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ok... firstly thank u for such a generous response.
i'm trying to set a recipe where my priorities are
1. long lasting & leather
2. cleansing, conditioning etc.
but the main problem is I have access only to these oils - coconut, palm, castor, rice brain, soybean.
so what should be the desired ratio of these oil to set a recipe that fulfills my priorities.
ok... firstly thank u for such a generous response.
i'm trying to set a recipe where my priorities are
1. long lasting & leather
2. cleansing, conditioning etc.
but the main problem is I have access only to these oils - coconut, palm, castor, rice brain, soybean.
so what should be the desired ratio of these oil to set a recipe that fulfills my priorities.
Well, for me, I also don't use much palm oil. I have used palm shortening and it did make a very hard bar of soap. I do use PKO (palm kernel flakes) sometimes as I was gifted some and it makes a hard bar of soap for sure, but I tend to keep it at about 12-15%. I tend to use lower percentages of CO (coconut oil) as well because my skin seems to prefer a lower cleansing profile. The soy I use is Soy Wax, which does harden the soap quite nicely and I use it at as much as 30%. But I don't really like the liquid Soy Oil. Liquid soybean oil does not produce a hard bar the way the soy wax does, and many soapers report that it seems to be more prone to DOS (dreaded orange spots to rancidity of the soap). I like RBO (rice bran oil) and use it in higher percentages sometimes and find it to be a nice oil for soaping.

The difference for me would be that I do like to include some Cocoa Butter and sometimes Shea Butter, so that's where you and I would end up with some slightly different soap. But you can only soap with the oils available to you, so you do what you have to do to create your soap.

For a longer lasting bar, for the oils you have, I would say keep your CO down (say 15-20%) and depending on which kind of palm available to you (palm oil, palm kernel flakes, palm shortening) determine the amount you want. RBO I would use anywhere from 20-30%, and liquid soybean oil I'd keep it at about 10-15% at the most. But if I had the option of hydrogenated soybean oil (what we call soy wax here), I'd use 30% soy wax.
 

Vaibhav Jain

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I actually make a hardening liquid, which I use as a replacement for water, that has both salt and vinegar (only 2%) and I get a nice hard bar that lasts. Not as long as a commercial bar but it's good.
By 2%, what do you mean i.e. 1%salt and 1% vinegar or 2% each totalling 4%.
Can I use citric acid in place of vinegar?
 

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