Need help in making the ULTIMATE BAR SOAP

[AliOop]

Please don’t use Dead Sea Salt in your soap. Like Epsom Salt, it contains things (mostly minerals) that don’t play well with soap.

Also, don’t use both sodium citrate and citric acid. Citric acid reacts with lye to become sodium citrate. I prefer sodium citrate bc no lye adjustment is required.

As mentioned by me and others, most forms of sugar will increase lather. Salt actually kills lather, so use it sparingly.

But overall, I agree with the others that making a simple bar of soap without additives is the best for starters.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Hi, my name is Brian Nemeth from Denver, Colorado.

Howdy from Lone Tree, Brian! Where are you in Denver?

I'm totally new to this idea of making my own soaps.

Here's an overview of all you need to know before making your first soap.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/beginners-learn-to-soap-online.64426/#post-657018
Download the FREE Guide to Making Cold Process Soap. That will give you a good idea of what all is involved in the process, including time, labor and expense.

Learn to use SoapCalc to determine the amount of lye needed to make your recipe. Follow the directions for Getting Started and Detailed Instructions in red at the top of the page. Hover your mouse over each number on the page for instructions for that step of the process. Take some time to play with it, entering different Tried & True soap recipes to get the hang of it.

If you still want to make your own soap after all that reading, God help you! As others will attest, it's addicting! And, obviously, from the response here, we're all nothing if not enablers!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

But overall, I agree with the others that making a simple bar of soap without additives is the best for starters.

You may be surprised to learn that lard soap, as others recommended, is not only the easiest to make, but it's the closest you can get to the "ULTIMATE BAR SOAP" as well. There is a large group of "Lardinators" on SMF, myself included. Like you, I got started making soap due to how wretched commercial soaps made my skin feel.

I made my first bar in 2003 at age 60 and have never looked back. I formulate my soaps and other Bath & Body products for Denver's dry Alpine Desert climate. I'm retired now but I still make soap, mostly liquid soap these days. It brings me joy, keeps me sane and it's cheaper than therapy!

ETA: One note about exfoliation... I've tried lots of different exfoliating soaps, and while they are all quite nice, you don't really need anything extra if you use a bath pouf

or a loofah to shower with. It does the job quite nicely. Lots to learn, eh?

 

[MomInWA]

Please don’t use Dead Sea Salt in your soap. Like Epsom Salt, it contains things (mostly minerals) that don’t play well with soap.

Also, don’t use both sodium citrate and citric acid. Citric acid reacts with lye to become sodium citrate. I prefer sodium citrate bc no lye adjustment is required.

As mentioned by me and others, most forms of sugar will increase lather. Salt actually kills lather, so use it sparingly.

But overall, I agree with the others that making a simple bar of soap without additives is the best for starters.

I learned this one the hard way! Dead Sea salt.

 

[not_ally]

Going to second (third? millionth?) Zany and so many other soapmakers on lard as the ultimate soaping fat. I have dry skin and a high lard percentage - I use between 60 and 65%) makes a huge difference in having my skin be tight after use and not even needing lotion afterwards. And here in the US it is the cheapest fat you can buy. A fat which is dirt cheap, luxurious/conditioning in feel/acceptable lather/produces a light colored, hard bar - there really is no substitute if you're not allergic, vegan or otherwise philosophically opposed.

 

[MomInWA]

I think we need to slow down for a minute.

1. Since you have never made soap before, I really think you need to start by making a small batch (like, a pound of soap). You can use the recipe that @AliOop provided above. If you need help putting it through a lye calculator, let us know. Just plain simple handmade soap might be all you need. And, you don't even know if you like making soap.

2. All soap cleans, but no soap can counter the fact that you are still rinsing it all off with the water that you are concerned about.

3. No soap is going to moisturize you. You may want to look into learning how to make lotion, too. Some people just need a lotion. In the winter time, it doesn't matter which soap I use, I will always need to use lotion.

4. As a mother, I have to go into Mom Mode and say, "don't scratch"! Please do not go in for super extra scratchy ingredients yet. You can damage your skin. Stick with just one for now and see what you think (I like cornmeal).

I’m going to second @artemis motion. You do not want to over-exfoliate! The more you scratch, the more you will itch. Slow down, please! Especially if you have psoriasis or eczema. It will absolutely make it worse.

I’m not sure what you’re doing that you don’t feel clean enough after a shower. Mechanic? Tank cleaner? I feel pretty gross after I leave the horse barn, but sensitive skin so I make a nice sugar scrub I use a couple times a week and that’s it! Using my handmade soap even just the past few months I’ve noticed a huge difference in dryness and the resulting itchiness. Way better!

Avoiding fragrances may help you as well.

Lastly, I’ve heard of portable water filters for hotel showers. If you travel a lot it may be worth investigating.

I hope this is helpful, and welcome to the forum! Amazing folks here! Very kind, helpful, experienced and knowledgeable. And nice.

 

[Scoop80205]

My Story on WHY I Wanna Make the Ultimate Bar Soap, even for THIS Beginner:

Colorado's air and water quality makes my skin feel like I got bugs crawling all over me. Cold snowy conditions hold less moisture, which can cause my skin to itch. Worse, the Rocky Mountain water may not be as clean as we think, especially for bathing. Therefore, after my shower, when I put on my clothes without lotion, I have ants-in-the-pants legs. My legs are itchy under my blue jeans. Yes, I do have the shower water filtration system I install myself in my apartment. But outside my home, whether at the gym or traveling outside Colorado, there's no access to water filtration shower heads. Moreover, some humidifiers can help with dry skin, but they're so **** expensive, YIKES!

Shower Mondays and Fridays. Like I said, the poor air and water quality does do damage to my skin, and if I shower everyday before work, I'll still feel itchy. That is, despite the fact I have in-shower body lotion and a water filtration shower head.

Handheld body scrubber to scratch my pesky itch as I lather. I use that Dove soap (soothing care and sensitive skin formula), and as I leather, I use that handheld body scrubber to scratch those pesky itches while the ingredients in that commercial soap soothes that itch. After I wash myself, I moisturize with Nivea In-shower body lotion, so when I leave the shower, I won't have those itches when I put on clean clothes.

Tried this Dr. Squatch Pine Tar soap. It had activated charcoal that filtered out impurities in my shower water, even though it was filtered. At the same time, the activated charcoal removed dirt and sweat. It was gritty, which I needed. That grit consisted of sand and colloidal oatmeal. That helped eliminate my need for scrubbers, seeing that it provides unseen bacteria I didn't know about. However, that pine tar soap did leave all that black stuff in my tub.

Hydrated, itch-free skin no matter where I travel, even in a desert climate: When I was traveling to Las Vegas, here's what happened. Before I boarded the plane to Vegas from Denver, I packed the Nivea in-shower body lotion and Aveeno oatmeal body wash (along with other toiletries) in my bag, but that lotion and body wash did NOT get past airport security. In my hotel room, there was no water-filtration shower head, like there is back home here in my Denver apartment. I'm not sure there IS a water-filtration shower that could get past the TSA, not even a handheld one. Yes, the desert climate (like in southern Nevada) can dry my skin, and unfiltered shower water can leave my skin MORE itchy.

Now You Know Why This Beginner Wanna Make the Ultimate Bar Soap.

1. make that soap adaptive to any shower water (filtered or dodgy)
2. extra gritty ingredients to scratch the itch (or exfoliate), and at the same time, soothing moisturizers to calm it.
3. No more loofahs or body scrubbers that can carry bacteria after a while
4. No need for in-shower body lotions no more
5. Simply put on clothes and you're out the door...feeling hydrated, moisturized, smelling fly like a motherchucker, a whole lot more refreshed
6. Moisturizing and filtrating soap that's safe to carry on plane

 

[KiwiMoose]

Simply put on clothes and you're out the door...feeling hydrated, moisturized, smelling fly like a motherchucker, a whole lot more refreshed

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I hear ya! My Story on WHY I totally relate to everything you listed...

Colorado's air and water quality makes my skin feel like I got bugs crawling all over me.

I moved to Denver in 1972 as a single mom with 2 kiddos. I wanted my children to grow up knowing their grandparents who lived in Evergreen. What you describe is exactly how I felt. So I get that! When I took my pantyhose off after work it looked like it was snowing as the flakes of dry itchy skin from my legs floated in the air.

Shower Mondays and Fridays.

Exactly! Only for us, it was once a week! The kids' other grandmother called from Peoria that summer while they were staying with them for 2 weeks. She complained, "Your son refuses to take a bath!" LOL I explained why and then had her put him on the phone. Problem solved with a few tub toys! LOL If you've ever visited the mid-west in the summer, it's SO humid, daily bathing is necessary, especially for a very active and curious 5-year-old!!!

Handheld body scrubber to scratch my pesky itch as I lather.

UGH. But I get why you feel that's necessary. The itchies can drive you nuts. (Not a far drive for me, though. )

Tried this Dr. Squatch Pine Tar soap.

Good to know. I make Pine Tar soap and I've also duplicated Dr. Squatch for a customer request. Use the Search feature in the upper right corner of this page to learn more.

Hydrated, itch-free skin no matter where I travel, even in a desert climate:

Relatively easy for me to create; but for you, learning to make your dream bar is a journey, i.e., first things first! If you still want to learn to make your own soap after all that reading in Post #22, then we are all here to help you along the way. But only you can do the work. The decision is yours.

 

[Quilter99755]

I was in Alaska when my skin started to itch, flake like mad and require tons of lotion just to get my clothes on. It's very dry there in the winter...which started mid Sept and we didn't get rain until May. I tried all kinds of soap....Dove was a total joke....nothing worked. We retired and traveled for a while then settled in Idaho. Boy, Howdy, is it ever dry here (high desert, 10-11 inches of rain a year)! But I met a lady who made her own soap and she gave me a bar. It was instant calm on my skin. Long story short I finally made it here to learn more about soaps AND ingredients.

For a while I tested out lots of different oils, butters, extra ingredients to find the perfect soap for me and my family. I now use lard as my main ingredient, usually with RBO, a butter and sometimes just whatever else I have on hand. For my husband and grandson, I do 75-80% lard, 20% CO and sometimes add in 5% castor oil. Every once in a while I try out other additives...like the triple rice soap for gifting, but if I'm getting down in my inventory I'll do one or two batches of my Plain soap so that for sure it gets 2 months of cure time.

I use no in shower body lotion and usually only lotion my hands and maybe my feet. Prior to finding my own soap to use, I did lotion over my whole body plus more at night on my hands and feet. Find a simple recipe and try it with no additives or scent. Make a small batch so you aren't wasting money. Let it cure for at least 6 weeks....you can try it out after a week or two but it won't be at its best...you might be totally surprised at how much you like just plain jane soap.

Then experiment with more small batches by trying other oils or other percentages of the same oils. Once you find the right recipe, then start adding your oatmeal, rice, GM, salts, etc one ingredient at a time, so you know if it is working or not. Good luck on finding your recipe and something that works for you in all the places you travel. It's a fun journey

 

[cmzaha]

I for one like a tallow/lard recipe at 40/20% and I like to add in Sorbitol to up lather. I keep my CO/PKO combination between 15-17%, with 3% Castor and the balance being HO Sunflower, HO Canola, or Avocado my preference. I keep superfat at 2% which will also help with lather. I do add in Sodium Gluconate and EDTA and 0.5% each for a total 1% of my batch weight. Using chelators in your soap will help cut the soap scum in your tub, shower, and on your body so your soap rinses off cleaner. I have severe eczema and this works well for me and was one of the main recipes I sold for years, other than my vegan formula. Truthfully the ideal soap for one can be a bad soap for another. But I sold many bars of this formula in my 10+ years of selling with a huge return clientele.

As for charcoal in soaps, I sold of lot of charcoal soaps. Charcoal tends to be a tad drying in soaps and usually will make a gray lather, although no one ever complained of staining their towels. I always put a disclaimer on my labels to use a dark washcloth with handmade soaps of any color.

Do keep in mind that soap is used to clean not moisturize. Lotion moisturizes. Superfatting just makes it hard on your plumbing and washing with oils...

One very gentle soap I happen to like when my skin is very irritated is un-fragranced 100% Almond Oil soap but it takes 6-12 months cure time before it will lather even with a bath puffy. But it is really nice after a year's cure time. Remember all soap cleanses. Also Edited to add you cannot expect soap to take the place of a good deodorant.

 

[Savage Daughter]

As other people have said, you definitely need to do a LOT of reading, learning & experimenting. Your assumption that dead sea salt may be the same as sea salt as one example - it is not - would lead to a not so pleasant experience. There are various types of salts, all with different mineral compositions. This does matter, a lot, as do the amounts used.

In regards to calendula oil, yes, it's stellar for skin, but are you going to make the oil yourself? You need to learn how to do so properly. And what will your base oil be for this? Each base oil has a different saponification value, and different properties when used for plant oil infusions, which further complicates things for someone new.

Soap making is not just a matter of reading a book, picking people's brains & knocking things out of the park right away. This is NOT like baking a batch of brownies from a box mix. You will have utter failures - which can lead to many, many successes depending on how you choose to view them. Even those who have been soaping for decades have batches go sideways, for many reasons.

Take some classes in your local area. Do some hands-on learning. Figure out what works for you in terms of soap ingredients. Learn to use a lye calculator. If you're interested in healing plants do a great deal of reading in proper books written by people with actual experience & knowledge (blogs are often a source of information). Likewise soap making blogs. Lots of rubbish information out there interspersed with good info, and being new to soap making, you won't know your arse from a hole in the ground when it comes to this. I see people regurgitating the same erroneous information again & again, whether with plant medicine or soap making or whatever because all they're doing is reading information from other blogs with incorrect information & then repeating it. Learn the difference between synthetic & plant derived colorants & essential oils / fragrance oils (synthetics irritate a lot of people's skin & allergies, headaches & so on, people like me), find out what types of equipment you prefer to use for soap making (molds / mixing vessels / scales / mixing equipment etc to the nth degree).

Be willing to put in the time, the effort, the willingness to experience fugly & less-than-stellar-batches, read forums religiously, post experiences regarding issues you're having to receive feedback & suggestions, make use of the search function to find information, and yes, ask questions.

Ultimately, your soap quality & properties depend on you. Ain't nobody gonna do your learning & experimenting for you, although there are very helpful people here who are happy to assist with what they are able to.

 

[MomInWA]

As other people have said, you definitely need to do a LOT of reading, learning & experimenting. Your assumption that dead sea salt may be the same as sea salt as one example - it is not - would lead to a not so pleasant experience. There are various types of salts, all with different mineral compositions. This does matter, a lot, as do the amounts used.

In regards to calendula oil, yes, it's stellar for skin, but are you going to make the oil yourself? You need to learn how to do so properly. And what will your base oil be for this? Each base oil has a different saponification value, and different properties when used for plant oil infusions, which further complicates things for someone new.

Soap making is not just a matter of reading a book, picking people's brains & knocking things out of the park right away. This is NOT like baking a batch of brownies from a box mix. You will have utter failures - which can lead to many, many successes depending on how you choose to view them. Even those who have been soaping for decades have batches go sideways, for many reasons.

Take some classes in your local area. Do some hands-on learning. Figure out what works for you in terms of soap ingredients. Learn to use a lye calculator. If you're interested in healing plants do a great deal of reading in proper books written by people with actual experience & knowledge (blogs are often a source of information). Likewise soap making blogs. Lots of rubbish information out there interspersed with good info, and being new to soap making, you won't know your arse from a hole in the ground when it comes to this. I see people regurgitating the same erroneous information again & again, whether with plant medicine or soap making or whatever because all they're doing is reading information from other blogs with incorrect information & then repeating it. Learn the difference between synthetic & plant derived colorants & essential oils / fragrance oils (synthetics irritate a lot of people's skin & allergies, headaches & so on, people like me), find out what types of equipment you prefer to use for soap making (molds / mixing vessels / scales / mixing equipment etc to the nth degree).

Be willing to put in the time, the effort, the willingness to experience fugly & less-than-stellar-batches, read forums religiously, post experiences regarding issues you're having to receive feedback & suggestions, make use of the search function to find information, and yes, ask questions.

Ultimately, your soap quality & properties depend on you. Ain't nobody gonna do your learning & experimenting for you, although there are very helpful people here who are happy to assist with what they are able to.

^^^^^This.

ETA - Please share your adventures in soaping with us as you go! We learn from each other, which is what makes this forum so great! Don't be shy to share the misadventures! You could be really helping someone with the "what didn't work this time was...".

 

[Scoop80205]

Looked online, did research, and found powders for

1. KDF-55 powder: removes chlorine, heavy metals and bacteria - click here
2. KDF-85 powder: removes iron, sulfur, bacteria and more - click here
3. sodium citrate of course

If I put those water filtration powders in soap, can it remove all the impurities from the shower water, so I don't end up with itchy skin? That is, if I use soap where there's no access to water filtration showers?

 

[artemis]

If I put those water filtration powders in soap, can it remove all the impurities from the shower water, so I don't end up with itchy skin? That is, if I use soap where there's no access to water filtration showers?

First of all, these are meant for water to be passed through. That's how filtration works.

Second, one of them appears to be made from copper? You should not be adding metals to your soap.

Third, you are still rinsing it all off in the water that you are trying to "filter." Maybe try a quick shower at the gym, then dash home and take a full shower in your filtered water. Or, just towel off really well at the gym and go home to wash up.

Fourth, I think it might be time for you to consult a doctor about your skin condition.

Fifth, I'm starting to think you're pulling our legs here.

 

[AliOop]

Looked online, did research, and found powders for

1. KDF-55 powder: removes chlorine, heavy metals and bacteria - click here
2. KDF-85 powder: removes iron, sulfur, bacteria and more - click here
3. sodium citrate of course

If I put those water filtration powders in soap, can it remove all the impurities from the shower water, so I don't end up with itchy skin? That is, if I use soap where there's no access to water filtration showers?

As @artemis stated, those powders won’t work in soap, and can even ruin your soap.

Is there a reason you continue to ignore our recommendations to make a basic, gentle soap, and see how that works? You are likely to find that your “skin condition” is greatly helped by that. But until you try, you won’t know.

 

[Scoop80205]

@AliOop - I'll just make the basic gentle soap using these ingredients you gave me.

60% lard
20% coconut oil
20% olive oil

3% super fat
33% lye concentration

Dissolve the following in the water before you add the NaOH:
-colloidal oats at 2% total oil weight
-goat milk powder (or both) at 2% total oil weight
- sodium citrate at 1% total oil weight

Or, do the basic tutorial from the LovinSoap website - Click Here

 

[Kcryss]

You really need to find out what you're allergic to at this point. I know a few people that are terribly allergic to coconut oil. Coconut and palm oils are in almost everything you come across. It may not be the water at all, it may be an ingredient in most soaps that are causing the issue.

In addition, you could even just try one of the natural soaps on the market with the ingredients listed and try it out. It would give you a start on what to try going forward when making your own soap. You can purchase natural soaps at grocery stores, Sprouts, Whole Foods, and Natural Grocers. There are even a number of us here in Colorado that would be willing to give you a bar to try out.

 

[cmzaha]

BTW, I cannot use soap made with 20% CO or PKO it is too harsh for my skin. More often than not I have to use my 100% Almond Oil soap, so when I get moved and settled I will have to get more made, and suck up the cost of Almond oil these days. My 12-15% CO soaps are starting to bother me. In the past I had customers who could not use any Lye soaps no matter what formula they were, they had to use M&P unfragranced soaps.

 

[TheGecko]

That's because no matter what soap I buy, it does wash away body odor, but it doesn't do the job of relieving pesky itching. I end up using either in-shower body lotion or after-shower lotion to stop this ant-in-the-pants legs feeling. That's why I need help in finding the right ingredients (and measuring them) to make the ultimate bar of soap

I have had 'dry skin' all my life and have spent a small fortune on moisturizers and lotions over the years. It got even worse after I was diagnosed with late onset Type 2 Diabetes in my early 40s and my hands would get so dry that they would hurt.

It's not what you put IN to artisan soap that makes it so much better than commercial soaps, it's what you DON'T take out. Number one on the list is glycerin...also known as glycerine or glycerol. Glycerin is a by-product of the saponification process...when Sodium Hydroxide breaks down oils and butters into their fatty acid components. In commercial soap making, this breakdown actually occurs prior to the introduction of Sodium Hydroxide by use of a Hydrolizer...molten fats are pumped on one end and [very] hot water and pressure is introduced on the other and the oils/butters then separate into fatty acids and glycerin. The majority of the glycerin is then sold off for other uses and the fatty acids and then combined with a Lye Solution and it goes from there.

Glycerine is a natural humectant, meaning that it helps our skin retain moisture. Glycerin also has antimicrobial and antiviral properties which is why it is used so often n wound and burn care treatments. And that soap is naturally antibacterial...washing your hands is the number one most effective ways of killing germs that spread diseases.

My recommendation is for you to start with a basic soap recipe. I have put my mine down below if you want to try it. I would start with a small batch...around 16 oz. There are several soap suppliers that make a 4" Square Silicone Mold that makes 4-5oz bars (it what I use for test batches). Don't add and colorants or scent...just start with a plain soap and let it sit for a good six weeks. I'll you right now...it's going to feeling a bit weird the first several times you use a handmade soap...it's going to feel that there is something on your skin and you're going to want to keep rinsing. It's not that there is anything on your skin, it's simply that you're not used to having all the natural oils stripped from your skin...the whole "squeaky clean" feeling. Now "squeaky clean" is great for dishes and pots and pans, but not so great for skin or hair...unless you are in the business of selling lotions and potions for skin and hair.

35% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil
20% Palm Oil
10% Cocoa Butter
10% Shea Butter
5% Castor Oil

33% Lye Concentration
5% Super Fat

1 tea Sodium Lactate PPO
1 tea Kaolin Clay PPO