for hot process, when to add salt, sugar, milk?

[jnl]

the people i know who make and sell soaps dont zap test or ph test. my friend said it tastes disgusting, which is why she doesnt do it. do all of you lick every batch you make? i just dont see a need for it.

i will use avocado, just not for my dog bar. and there are plenty of oils with similar properties to avocado, so thats not a big deal. soap has been made for thousands of years, most of which never had any castor oil or other fancy oils we have. and i dont get why so many people seem to be so against me doing a test to see what happens when i add citric acid after HP. whats the big deal? if it fails, it fails. if it doesnt, like soap queen and a number of others have said, then maybe its something that can benefit my dog bar.

avoiding unethical products or risky ones for this specific use is not closed minded. its a pain in the butt, but that doesnt mean i shouldnt try.

gluten-free baking is a huge pain in the ass. but i dont really have any choice. so im used to lots of trial and error working with limited options.

I'm afraid to say that the zap test cannot be substituted by a pH test -

Let's say you test the pH and manage to get it lab quality accurate. You get a reading. How do you know if that means it is safe or not?

You don't. Each soap, when perfectly and utterly safe, can have a different pH. One soap can be totally fine and sit at 10, another can be fine and be at 9. Yet another can be 12 and not be harmful.

The issue comes from excess alkalinity, which is not measured like pH. The option that soapers go to is the zap test.

I have to say, considering that you are looking to do something new and want help and advice in doing so, you are extremely closed minded. Zero interest in zap testing. Won't use avocado because it's deadly. Cannot use so many oils for ethical reasons. It often seems that you have decided before you ask the question and just want someone to confirm your decision.

But the answers given come from experienced soapers. A lot of whom have a long history making soaps (longer than it is polite for a gentleman to mention!) and we can benefit from their experience if we are willing.

Soaping, alas, is not magic. A lot of what you want to do is either very hard or impossible when you include your restrictions. I can't make a pork chop for a vegan - it just isn't possible. I can make a slab of cooked tofu or something, but not a pork chop.

 

[jnl]

yes, i will try that.

You may want to consider a vinegar rinse for a dog, to help their skin readjust. The same as we do for our hair if using a shampoo bar.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

the people i know who make and sell soaps dont zap test or ph test. my friend said it tastes disgusting, which is why she doesnt do it. do all of you lick every batch you make? i just dont see a need for it.

I zap test every batch, yes. Mainly because I do a lot of HP and want to know when the soap is cooked before I cook it more than it needs to be. Sure, it's not like sipping a delicious cup of tea, but it is far from terrible. The positives outweigh the negatives, by a very long way.

If you don't test at all, that is something else. If you are testing to see if a bar is safe, pH is useless. Any bar of real soap is going to change the pH of your dog's skin, so if you lower the pH by 1 point, you haven't really won anything.

i will use avocado, just not for my dog bar. and there are plenty of oils with similar properties to avocado, so thats not a big deal. soap has been made for thousands of years, most of which never had any castor oil or other fancy oils we have. and i dont get why so many people seem to be so against me doing a test to see what happens when i add citric acid after HP. whats the big deal? if it fails, it fails. if it doesnt, like soap queen and a number of others have said, then maybe its something that can benefit my dog bar.

You can of course do anything that you jolly well like. But you ask the question and people answer. If we don't give the answers that you want, that is not a problem. People are saying not to do it because that is their advice. The whole point of a forum is learning from the experience of other people, so if you want to try something regardless of the advice, go for it, but DO NOT complain about getting advice via a medium specifically designed for that.

avoiding unethical products or risky ones for this specific use is not closed minded. its a pain in the butt, but that doesnt mean i shouldnt try.

gluten-free baking is a huge pain in the ass. but i dont really have any choice. so im used to lots of trial and error working with limited options.

This is a good example. You might well be unable to process gluten. You are able to use palm oil - one is not a choice, the other is. I choose to avoid eating carbs in the evening - it does not mean that I am unable to do so and I have to accept that there are certain things that I can't eat in the evening or I have to accept that I have to sometimes eat carbs, such as when I am out for dinner.

But the closed mindedness was more a reference to the points where you are dead set on doing certain things regardless of the advice given. By all means, do what you want, but then please ask for advice when you are open to other suggestions. Zap testing, for example - you are dead set against it even though you have never even tried it.

 

[mx5inpenn]

The worst thought to me before I made my first batch was the zap test. I had my mouth washed out with soap as a kid (more than once!!) and really didn't like the idea of doing it voluntarily. I still did it and it really isn't that bad. It doesn't taste good, but it isn't the end of the world either. Of course, I haven't gotten zapped yet either...

 

[jnl]

if you do a zap test and get a zap because the lye is not done, do you get a burn on your tongue?

 

[Dorymae]

No you don't get a burn. It is an unpleasant feeling but it is instant. Believe me you won't hold the soap to your tongue if there is a zap. It is a small shock like feeling. Like you touched a battery to your tongue, but it doesn't hurt you just alerts you without a shadow of a doubt.

If you question whether it was a zap- it wasn't.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I wet the soap and rub some of the lather on my fingers - if no tingling, I touch that to my tongue - if no zap, I touch the bar to my tongue.

 

[TeresaT]

TEG, you are the politest, most patient person I have ever come across on a forum. Bravo, sir! I read this whole thread just to see if anyone called her/him out for being so argumentative and stubborn. I guess I'm the only one that thinks like that. I've gotta work on my bad attitude and learn some patience.

 

[JBot]

TEG, you are the politest, most patient person I have ever come across on a forum. Bravo, sir! I read this whole thread just to see if anyone called her/him out for being so argumentative and stubborn. I guess I'm the only one that thinks like that. I've gotta work on my bad attitude and learn some patience.

You're not the only one, believe me. This thread had me banging my head on the table. I'm pretty much a dedicated HP-er, so there's plenty I could have added, but I this was so frustrating to read that I didn't trust myself to be nice.