Hot Process Soap Recommendations

[Jarrett Clay]

Good morning! I just did my first batch of hot process soap and it did not turn out quite right. I have attached a photo of what it looks like. It is crumbly and feels sticky. It also has an odd burnt smell to it. Here is the recipe that I used.

Lye Concentration: 25%
Liquid:Lye Ration: 3:1

Lye Solution:
Distilled Water: 179.24 Grams
NaOH: 68.08 Grams
Citric Acid: 10 Grams

Oils
Coconut Oil, Virgin: 200 grams
Cupuacu Butter: 75 grams
Beef Tallow: 100 grams
Castor Oil: 50 grams
Jojoba Butter: 25 grams
Lanolin (anhydrous, not lanolin oil): 50 grams

Added with Oils:
Molasses: 25 grams
Table Salt: 5 grams

After Cook Additives:
Emu Oil: 25 grams
Rosemary Oleoresin: 0.9 grams
Goat Milk Powder: 50 grams
Kaolin Clay: 5 grams
Frankincense Dalzeili Powder Infused in the Emu Oil: 10 grams
Greek Yogurt: 25 grams

Notes:
-I did not do a liquid discount for the Greek yogurt.
-I mixed the yogurt, goat milk powder, rosemary oleoresin, and kaolin before adding to the mixture.
-I used the high-temperature hot process method. I know, I know, beginners should probably start with CP or low temp hot process but I like to jump in head first. It's my ADHD.
-The superfat content at the beginning was 3% and the emu oil was added 5% after cook superfat.

Initial Thoughts:
My initial thoughts are:
-I should not have mixed the yogurt, goat milk powder, rosemary oleoresin, and kaolin before adding to the mixture. I should have done them all separately.
-Any of the soap calculators that I could find did not have anhydrous lanolin, only lanolin oil. However, I had anhydrous lanolin already because I use that in salves and beard balms. This could potentially cause the stickiness if the waxy part did not saponify.
-I used jojoba butter instead of jojoba oil because that is what I had. I wonder if this could have done something weird.
-I am thinking of leaving out the clay next time or adding more post-cook liquid. I imagine this is probably contributing to the crumbling.
-Next time, I will add the molasses in post-cook. I think the odd burnt smell is coming from the molasses being to hot.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

 

[lsg]

You used a lot of hard fats/butters. Adding salt probably didn't help. Also cooking at a high temp would have evaporated the liquid faster. When attempting a new soap process, it is always better to use a simple recipe without a lot of additives.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

My guess was that it needed more liquid.

Ya, that is why I was thinking to either remove the clay from the list or add more water etc.

 

[lsg]

Ya, that is why I was thinking to either remove the clay from the list or add more water etc.

I have edited my first reply after I gave it some thought.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

You used a lot of hard fats/butters. Adding salt probably didn't help. Also cooking at a high temp would have evaporated the liquid faster. When attempting a new soap process, it is always better to use a simple recipe without a lot of additives.

I hadn't thought about the amount of hard butters vs oils/soft butters. That is an excellent point.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

Why are you adding lanolin? I ask because I learned it frequently causes allergic reactions, which it did for me after using it regularly in lip and skin products. Lanolin also results in a sticky finish. So I was wondering what you want to achieve by adding the lanolin.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

Why are you adding lanolin? I ask because I learned it frequently causes allergic reactions, which it did for me after using it regularly in lip and skin products. Lanolin also results in a sticky finish. So I was wondering what you want to achieve by adding the lanolin.

Excellent question. I use it in my beard balms and other salves. It is an excellent emollient. I have used Bag Balm for my dry hands for years without any issues avd it seems to work the best with lanolin being a main ingredient.

I am also aware of the potential for sensitivity, but from what I understand it does not frequently cause reactions, it can cause reactions. The studies I found showed up to 7% can have a sensitivity. However, females make up most of that. I market my products to men and I ensure that there is clear labeling about the potential for sensitivity. Lanolin is also used by breastfeeding mothers to help with chafing. Lanolin also has many similarities to our skins own sebum.

I think that the sensitivity issue is similar to essential oils. Different people react differently. The stickiness seems to be subsiding as I leave the soap to cure.

 

[Kcryss]

I do HTHP soap (and same as you, it's what I started with). I think you needed more water. I put your ingredients into smf calculator and the amount of water listed is 212.39g.
40% CO is a lot in my opinion because it can be drying. Some people do well with it that high however, so personal preference.
I also mix my gm powder with a little water, but that is in addition to what is used to make the soap.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

I do HTHP soap (and same as you, it's what I started with). I think you needed more water. I put your ingredients into smf calculator and the amount of water listed is 212.39g.
40% CO is a lot in my opinion because it can be drying. Some people do well with it that high however, so personal preference.
I also mix my gm powder with a little water, but that is in addition to what is used to make the soap.

View attachment 76487

Thanks for the reply! That is a great idea, mixing the goat's milk with some water first. I also think I probably should have done that with the clay. The oil percentages that are in there gave me almost identical amounts of oleic and lauric acid in the soap. I read somewhere that when those are balanced it helps out with better lather and with the drying. This is also why I added emu oil as a post-cook super fat.

I did rebatch this with goat's milk and it looks a lot better now. I definitely need to have more liquid next time, and I do not think I controlled the temperature as well as I should have. I have some babassu oil coming that I will probably use to replace the coconut oil.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

I do HTHP soap (and same as you, it's what I started with). I think you needed more water. I put your ingredients into smf calculator and the amount of water listed is 212.39g.
40% CO is a lot in my opinion because it can be drying. Some people do well with it that high however, so personal preference.
I also mix my gm powder with a little water, but that is in addition to what is used to make the soap.

View attachment 76487

I also, I love the quote at the end of your post, "Why must work continue to interrupt my soaping fun!" I am not sure if that was on the calculator website or your quote but it is so true. One day, I would love to make soap making/herbal medicine/beard and skin care my full-time gig.

 

[Kcryss]

Thanks for the reply! That is a great idea, mixing the goat's milk with some water first. I also think I probably should have done that with the clay. The oil percentages that are in there gave me almost identical amounts of oleic and lauric acid in the soap. I read somewhere that when those are balanced it helps out with better lather and with the drying. This is also why I added emu oil as a post-cook super fat.

I did rebatch this with goat's milk and it looks a lot better now. I definitely need to have more liquid next time, and I do not think I controlled the temperature as well as I should have. I have some babassu oil coming that I will probably use to replace the coconut oil.

The absolute best resource for learning about fatty acids and how they affect soap is @DeeAnna 's website
https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.asp

I also, I love the quote at the end of your post, "Why must work continue to interrupt my soaping fun!" I am not sure if that was on the calculator website or your quote but it is so true. One day, I would love to make soap making/herbal medicine/beard and skin care my full-time gig.

lol, I'm with you and it sounds like we make very similar items.

 

[AliOop]

I have some babassu oil coming that I will probably use to replace the coconut oil.

Babassu is much more expensive than CO, and doesn't feel noticeably different in soap. Unless you reduce the amount used, it will still make a very cleansing soap that will be drying to the skin. Maybe save it for those lotions and salves, instead?

 

[DeeAnna]

...I read somewhere that when those [oleic and lauric acids] are balanced it helps out with better lather and with the drying....

The idea of controlling the ratio of these particular two fatty acids to reduce skin dryness is not something I've heard before. Would be nice to know the science that backs up this idea.

Oleic soap and lauric soap (aka sodium oleate and sodium laurate) do interact with each other to affect the crystal structure of a finished soap. Soap scientists and commercial manufacturers pay attention to the ratio of these two soap molecules when formulating a transparent soap for the best transparency.

Stated simply, you'd want to use a 1:1 MOLAR ratio of sodium oleate to sodium laurate for best transparency in an NaOH soap. Paying attention to this ratio might also affect the transparency in a liquid (KOH) soap as well, but I don't know that to be true from my studies. Just a guess.

Since lauric acid is quite a bit lighter than oleic acid, however, it's not correct to assume a 1:1 MOLAR ratio of these two soaps is the same as a 1:1 WEIGHT ratio. And the molar weights of the fatty acids are not the same as the molar weight of the soap made from those FAs.

If you formulate the fatty acid profile in Soapcalc (or other soap recipe c@lc) to have a 1:1 weight ratio of just the lauric acid and oleic acid, you'll end up with a soap with quite a bit more lauric soap in proportion to oleic soap than you'd want for best transparency.

So ... again, it would be good to know the science behind this idea of a 1:1 weight ratio of lauric to oleic acid. I'm always skeptical of simple "rules" like this when they're provided without any supporting background.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

The idea of controlling the ratio of these particular two fatty acids to reduce skin dryness is not something I've heard before. Would be nice to know the science that backs up this idea.

Oleic soap and lauric soap (aka sodium oleate and sodium laurate) do interact with each other to affect the crystal structure of a finished soap. Soap scientists and commercial manufacturers pay attention to the ratio of these two soap molecules when formulating a transparent soap for the best transparency.

Stated simply, you'd want to use a 1:1 MOLAR ratio of sodium oleate to sodium laurate for best transparency in an NaOH soap. Paying attention to this ratio might also affect the transparency in a liquid (KOH) soap as well, but I don't know that to be true from my studies. Just a guess.

Since lauric acid is quite a bit lighter than oleic acid, however, it's not correct to assume a 1:1 MOLAR ratio of these two soaps is the same as a 1:1 WEIGHT ratio. And the molar weights of the fatty acids are not the same as the molar weight of the soap made from those FAs.

If you formulate the fatty acid profile in Soapcalc (or other soap recipe c@lc) to have a 1:1 weight ratio of just the lauric acid and oleic acid, you'll end up with a soap with quite a bit more lauric soap in proportion to oleic soap than you'd want for best transparency.

So ... again, it would be good to know the science behind this idea of a 1:1 weight ratio of lauric to oleic acid. I'm always skeptical of simple "rules" like this when they're provided without any supporting background.

That's fantastic information. I probably misread the ratio and it has to do with the crystal structure. When I went back to what I read it was speaking about the lathering properties. Good call-out on the weight as well.

 

[Joy Wolff]

I am relatively new at this myself, but in looking at your recipe. The burnt smell could be the molasses. It's basically a type of sugar, and we all know how fast a sugar can burn in a regular skillet. The little I know (on 18th batch now of HP), I'd add the molasses at the very end, before putting into mold. Stir it in, let it rest 3-5 minutes, then mold it. Just my two cents, but my caveat is I'm new at this too! And you said that, at the end...of your post. I agree!

 

[AliOop]

I am relatively new at this myself, but in looking at your recipe. The burnt smell could be the molasses. It's basically a type of sugar, and we all know how fast a sugar can burn in a regular skillet. The little I know (on 18th batch now of HP), I'd add the molasses at the very end, before putting into mold. Stir it in, let it rest 3-5 minutes, then mold it. Just my two cents, but my caveat is I'm new at this too! And you said that, at the end...of your post. I agree!

Agreed, plus I would warm all the post-cook additives: molasses, yogurt, etc. As soon as the warmed additives are well mixed into the soap batter, you can put everything in the mold.

 

[Jarrett Clay]

I am relatively new at this myself, but in looking at your recipe. The burnt smell could be the molasses. It's basically a type of sugar, and we all know how fast a sugar can burn in a regular skillet. The little I know (on 18th batch now of HP), I'd add the molasses at the very end, before putting into mold. Stir it in, let it rest 3-5 minutes, then mold it. Just my two cents, but my caveat is I'm new at this too! And you said that, at the end...of your post. I agree!

I think it was definitely the molasses. I did a second batch and added it at the very end and it was a lot better. I think the lanolin contributed to it some as well.