Shaving soap with NAOH and KOH?

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Hubby tried my 60/40 croap experiment again earlier in the week, and he loved it so much so that he's been shaving with it just about every day since. lol Today is only its 2-week birthday, too. He reports that it performs every bit as wonderfully as the 100% NaOH version, but that he likes this 60/40 version better because it's easier to lather.

I did a lather test on it this afternoon using this method: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/21136-How-to-make-great-lather-from-a-soap-Tutorial and all I can say is wow! I was able to whip up a thick/dense/rich, merengue-like lather in just under 3 minutes from loading-time to finish, and believe it or not, the lather is still holding its own without dissipating after 3 1/2 hours now.

Out of curiosity, I just pinched the lather to test the texture and found that the outer 1/16th inch of the lather had dried into a semi-firm soapy shell, which when rubbed between my fingers feels very creamy and lotion-like, while the inside is still moist and foamy (and also lotion-like in feel).

I'm almost ready to conduct my next experiment, which is to greatly increase the stearic content of my formula by subbing in 28% stearic acid for some (but not all) of my tallow, and omitting the clay. If I can just keep myself from tweaking it on SoapCalc one more time, I'll be making it tomorrow. :D

Next, after that, I want to try an even higher stearic version of my formula, but without any bubbly oils or castor oil or clay. And I want to make it using 100% KOH.

I'll let you know how it goes!

IrishLass :)
 
Hubby tried my 60/40 croap experiment again earlier in the week, and he loved it so much so that he's been shaving with it just about every day since. lol Today is only its 2-week birthday, too. He reports that it performs every bit as wonderfully as the 100% NaOH version, but that he likes this 60/40 version better because it's easier to lather.

I did a lather test on it this afternoon using this method: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/21136-How-to-make-great-lather-from-a-soap-Tutorial and all I can say is wow! I was able to whip up a thick/dense/rich, merengue-like lather in just under 3 minutes from loading-time to finish, and believe it or not, the lather is still holding its own without dissipating after 3 1/2 hours now.

Out of curiosity, I just pinched the lather to test the texture and found that the outer 1/16th inch of the lather had dried into a semi-firm soapy shell, which when rubbed between my fingers feels very creamy and lotion-like, while the inside is still moist and foamy (and also lotion-like in feel).

I'm almost ready to conduct my next experiment, which is to greatly increase the stearic content of my formula by subbing in 28% stearic acid for some (but not all) of my tallow, and omitting the clay. If I can just keep myself from tweaking it on SoapCalc one more time, I'll be making it tomorrow. :D

Next, after that, I want to try an even higher stearic version of my formula, but without any bubbly oils or castor oil or clay. And I want to make it using 100% KOH.

I'll let you know how it goes!

IrishLass :)

Loving these updates.

Looking at the other high Stearic-no Clay recipes doing the rounds, I think that you will need to increase the glycerine a bit, too.
 
Loving these updates.

Looking at the other high Stearic-no Clay recipes doing the rounds, I think that you will need to increase the glycerine a bit, too.

That's what I was thinking, too. Normally, I add 10% glycerin, although in the croap I made 2 weeks ago I added 15% just for experiment's sake, which I'm happy to report didn't cause any harm to the positive attributes that my formula normally exhibits. But since this experiment will be including 28% pure stearic acid, which doesn't produce any glycerin at all during saponification, I'm going to need bump it up. That's one of the biggest reasons why it has been taking me so long to get on with this experimental batch. I keep second-guessing myself as to how much glycerin to add.

The other reason is that I keep second-guessing myself over how much to increase the superfat level, because subbing in the 28% stearic for most of my tallow has knocked down the conditioning numbers of my formula from 50 to 40 on SoapCalc. I normally superfat it at 8%, but if any of my past soap experiments using SoapCalc's numbers as a plumb line are anything to go by, moving from 50 to 40 in the conditioning department is a huge step in the wrong direction that usually leads to an unpleasantly dry/tight 'after-feel', so I need to take that into consideration, too.

I'm telling ya- all these variables have been driving me batty with indecision, but I've decided to just go for it with this game plan: I'm going to add 20% glycerin, and I'm going to increase my overall superfat to 15%. I'll only be making a 227g batch, so if it doesn't turn out the way I hope, I'll just scrap it up and rebatch it into a different batch of something later on.

I'll let you know how it goes!

By the way- I really like the putty/clay-like texture of the 60/40 croap and how it gives me the ability to fill out his mug completely to the outer dimensions for a perfectly snug fit.

IrishLass :)
 
Well, it's finally made and poured/glopped! I will test out the lather tomorrow. I can hardly wait!

I can't get over how shiny the soap looks. I'm supposing it must be from the added stearic acid.

I scented it with Ahoy Matey from Daystar. The croap I made 2 weeks ago was scented with Salty Sailor from Daystar. Those are two of hubby's favorite scents. I think I'll scent my next shave soap/croap experiment with Santa's Pipe from SweetCakes. It's a wonderful cherry tobacco scent.

I'll let you know how the lather test goes!


IrishLass :)
 
I'm going to have to try the 60:40 NaOH : KOH. Is this hard enough as a puck to be able to be packaged by itself or does it need to be in a container of some sort?
 
I can't get over how shiny the soap looks. I'm supposing it must be from the added stearic acid.
IL, my soap is sort of translucent and shiny. It bears a closer resemblance to Vaseline than Ivory. It is 100% KOH though and pretty clay-like in consistency but that shininess is something I definitely get.

I scented it with Ahoy Matey from Daystar. The croap I made 2 weeks ago was scented with Salty Sailor from Daystar. Those are two of hubby's favorite scents. I think I'll scent my next shave soap/croap experiment with Santa's Pipe from SweetCakes. It's a wonderful cherry tobacco scent.
Those references cost me an hour of window shopping. :)
 
I'm going to have to try the 60:40 NaOH : KOH. Is this hard enough as a puck to be able to be packaged by itself or does it need to be in a container of some sort?

Lindy- the 60% KOH /40%NaOH croap I made 2 weeks ago is quite clay/putty-like. It's firm enough to cut, yet soft enough to form into different shapes with your hands without it losing its end-shape (unless you squish it up again to form a different shape, that is, lol). I must confess that I rather like the consistency a lot!

Following is a pic of one of the pucks I formed out the above-mentioned croap putty. I formed it by lining a 1/2-cup sized dry-measuring cup with an oversized piece of plastic wrap, then I squished and pressed the croap putty down into the lined cup until I judged there were no air bubbles left. When done, I pulled up on the plastic wrap to remove the croap and finished things off by pressing a rubber stamp on top just for fun.

Anyway, I can hold the puck in the palm of my hand and give it a slight squeeze without doing any damage to it, but if I squeeze a little harder, it starts to give in.

IMG_2343CroppedCraopResized300.JPG


I don't know how firmer it will get in the weeks to come, but if I were to package my 2-week old croap right now, it would hold up to being wrapped just fine. But if I were to mail it to someone, I think I would want to surround it with a little bit of bubble-wrap or something just in case it gets banged around too much en route.

IrishLass :)
 
Those references cost me an hour of window shopping. :)

LOL. All 3 are really great scents, but I must say my favorite of the 3 is Salty Sailor (hubby's too). It's very unique. It smells just like a fresh, salty, sea breeze to me. I don't know how they pull it off, but one can really smell the salt in it. I've affectionately nicknamed it 'Cape Cod in a Bottle' because the smell of it reminds me of the beaches of Cape Cod that I used to visit when I lived in MA. Everyone that I gift my soaps to without any exception (of both men and women) loves this scent. I love it so much that I think if it ever came down to the point that I were forced to choose only one scent with which to soap for the rest of my life, it would be Salty Sailor. lol

IrishLass :)
 
You're welcome, Lindy. :)


Well, the preliminary results from my latest experiment are in and they are very encouraging!

To recap- this experiment was conducted to see whether or not increasing the overall stearic amount in my formula would provide enough protection and glide in my soap to allow me to be able to completely eliminate my clay amount. I used my normal shaving formula that I've been making since 2008 that my hubby thinks is awesome, but I tweaked it like so:

-I subbed in 28% pure stearic acid for most (but not all) of my tallow amount to greatly boost my overall stearic %.
-I completely omitted the kaolin clay (I normally use 2 teaspoons ppo).
-I used 60% KOH/40% NaOH instead of 100% NaOH.
-I increased my superfat level as well as my added glycerin amount to compensate for the lower conditioning number and lower glycerin content due to subbing stearic acid for most of my tallow.
-I used the HP method instead of my usual CP method
-I saponified the stearic and hard fats with the KOH, and saponified the soft oils with the NaOH, and then I combined them both together while still molten.

All of my other ingredients remained the same as always.

......End of re-cap.........

Okay! First, I conducted a simple lather test on my day-old croap this afternoon by whipping up a beautifully creamy/dense merengue-like lather (took about 3 minutes from start to finish), and then hubby and I each tested it out by rubbing small dollops of it between our fingers. It felt wonderfully cushiony and slick to us both.

I then let the rest of the whipped-up lather sit undisturbed in a pillowy clump to see how it would hold up over time, and I'm happy to report that it did very well indeed! It held both it's shape and moist consistency well past the required 10-20 minutes. I tested out the pillowy clump again at the 1-hour mark and was surprised to find that it still felt like new.

Then I left it alone and forgot about it for the next 4 and a half hours as I busied myself with housework. When I checked on it again at what turned out to be the 5-hour mark, it had not lost it's shape, but the outer skin was now firm and a bit gummy to the touch. The inside was still moist and foamy, but the foam had grown airier and it readily collapsed when I touched it, much like the way cotton candy reacts when touched.

Next, I asked hubby if he wouldn't mind shaving with it, and he good-naturedly obliged. :thumbup:

Results? He loved it! Unlike my previous clay-less batch that was made using my original, 100% NaOH normal-in-every-other-way-except-for-the-omission-of-clay-formula, hubby said that this batch had lots of cushion/protection and glide, and his skin felt great and wonderfully hydrated afterwards- absolutely no dryness or tightness or uncomfortableness of any sort. And he was also able to get a close BBS shave without any nicks or cuts in spite of the croap being only a day old.

I then asked him to rate it against my original 100% NaOH with-clay version of the formula and also the 60 KOH/40 NaOH version of the original (also with clay) that I made 2 weeks ago, and he said it rated on the same par with them in terms of cushion/protection, glide, and the wonderful after-feel, but that he really likes 60% KOH/40% NaOH versions over the 100% NaOH version because of the increased ease of lather factor.

Well, what this seems to be telling me is that a higher stearic amount can indeed completely replace the clay amount in my formula without harming any of the positive qualities that my hubby loves about my formula. So....it looks like the trouble-making wet-shaver dudes were right.....at least as far as my formula is concerned at any rate. Thank you trouble-making wet-shaver dudes! :)

My next experiment (after the 100% KOH experiment that I'm going to make next week without any castor, clay or bubbly oils), will consist of making the same exact tweak of my formula as I made yesterday, but with the addition of clay this time. I want to see if it makes it even better (or not).


IrishLass :)
 
"...that I were forced to choose only one scent with which to soap for the rest of my life, it would be Salty Sailor...."

And, of course, Daystar is out of stock on that one. And the other two that I thought I might like.

Following this thread with pleasure.....
 
I'm looking at shaving soap from a different perspective. I'm viewing shaving soap as using 100% KOH and the NAOH is an added ingredient, not the other way around.

So, from that perspective, other than making a cream soap or a croap (halfway between cream & hard soap puck), what's the benefit of using any NAOH at all?
 
I guess it adds hardness and form to the puck, now that I think about it. Your comment jogged my thinking.
 
You took the words right outta my mouth. I think there's a perception that shaving soap has to be a puck. None of mine (since learning about good soap) are.

I think some people like a puck. It's not about it having to be a puck, but I know for a fact that you well know that when it comes to shaving there is so much "YMMV" that what is golden for one person will leave the next man bloodier than butcher.

A lot of soaps that are considered classics use a mix of Potassium and Sodium (the vintage Old Spice pucks in the mugs, for example).

As I said, I will be making both (the only difference in my recipe) and see which one works best for me. When it comes to selling I'll most likely make both just because some people want a puck.
 
For several years up until this summer when I started reading these here shaving threads, I was all about the hard puck. But that's mainly because I've been living under a rock and didn't know there was anything else other than a hard puck that a man would use as a shaving medium..... well, except for cans of shaving cream or shaving gel, that is- but those don't count (at least to Hubby they don't anyway).

But now that I've found out what croaps are and have made a few batches of them..... well, I guess you could say that I'm not so strongly tethered to the concept of a hard puck anymore.... lol

Don't get me wrong, though- I still love my hard puck formula and am glad to have it in my soaping arsenal since it's easily CP'd and it gives hubby a great shave, but it's pretty cool knowing I'm no longer solely limited to a hard puck as the 'be-all/end-all'. It's like a whole new lathery world has opened up to me, and I'm excited about it! (I'm such a soap nerd! :p)

After the last few comments in regards to using KOH-only, I think I'm going to need to add yet another experiment to my list to try making- namely a KOH-only version of the higher stearic version of my formula that I just made. Goodness! My list just keeps growing longer! I need to start writing these things down before I lose track of them or forget the reason why I'm conducting whatever experiment. :crazy: lol You guys are such enablers!


IrishLass :)
 
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