Shaving soap with NAOH and KOH?

[IrishLass]

I know, I know! I'm sorry, please forgive me! I tried so hard to resist, I really did! But those tantalizing silicone embed molds kept calling to me and tempting me, and they just wouldn't let up! I'll try harder next time, I promise! :razz:


IrishLass

 

[cpacamper]

How dare you do anything other than make shaving soaps!

Yeah, +1,000!

Us weird shaving dudes are impatient and obsessive too :clap:

 

[IrishLass]

Okay, so, it's no longer 'troublemaking wet-shaving dudes', but 'weird, impatient, obsessive, troublemaking wet-shaver dudes'. Got it. ;-) lol


IrishLass

 

[LBussy]

Okay, so, it's no longer 'troublemaking wet-shaving dudes', but 'weird, impatient, obsessive, troublemaking wet-shaver dudes'. Got it.

Yeah, these guys:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

We are a special breed, that's for sure.

I can't seem to post pictures over this hotel connection, but I have shots from the 1.5 day old KOH & NaOH shaving soap. Not as good to lather so soon as the pure KOH, but still a jolly good shave.

Picked up a bowl here in Georgia (the elderly lady in the little shop spoke passable German, which was rather surprising to say the least!) so I'll see how it works up my Arko and then when I get home I'll see how it works with my own soaps. Pictures soon

 

[IrishLass]

Okay, David (and the rest of you weird, impatient, obsessive, troublemaking wet-shaver dudes)- I just got done cooking and pouring out the experiment you were asking about. It proceeded very well- much less hassle than doing the separating method for sure. I'll have hubby test it out on Thursday and post his findings.

IrishLass

 

[LBussy]

I've never been so honored to be called names. :razz:

Looking forward to hearing the results!

 

[eucalypta]

• Parfum - Fragrance oilor Essential Oil
• Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone masking agentaka 3-Methyl-4-(2,6,6-trimethyl-2-cyclohexen-1-yl)-3-buten-2-one, or cetone = a synthetic fragrance element smelling woody, violet or floral like.
• Hexyl Cinnamal Often used as a masking agent this is a part of Chamomile and is used in perfuming. It is a known allergen.
• Limonene - Again part of an essential oil, citrus, which is obtained from oranges. It is done through centrifuge or steam distillation rather than the normal method of expressed from the peels.
• Linalool - A terpene alcohol that is found in a lot of different plants/essential oils.
• Hydroxycitronellal - This is a fragrance compound that can be used up to 5% according to IFRA.

I admit I had to look most of them up but I knew they weren't essential oils but rather composites of the essential oil. So in essence these are "parts" of essential oils but not essential oils in themselves.

You're partially right here.
Most of the ingredients mentioned here usually don't stand on their own. Limonene being the major exception, as it is added to a lot of cleaning products for its extreme good cleansing properties. (Hence the citrussy scent of a lot of household and industrial cleaners.)
Alfa-Isomethyl ionone is the second ingredient that may be added to a product as a separate ingredient, because it is synthetically produced.

All of the above mentioned ingredients are used for their fragrance and are known allergens.

These allergens are part of a list of 26, that - in the European Union - require labeling if the concentration of the designated ingredient exceeds 100 parts per million (ppm) for a rinse-off product and 10 ppm for a leave-on product. (safety threshold). International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients (INCI) names must be used.

Most of the forum members are not from the EU, so I can imagine that for them, reading all those ingredients on a label may be confusing.
Using a fragrance oil in the EU requires a MSDS/Technical Data Sheet which includes the amounts of all allergens in the FO or EO.
Then it is up to you to calculate the actual amount per allergen of the list of 26 in your product, in order to label correctly.
You can imagine that it becomes quite a challenge if you decide to combine two or more FOs/EOs in one product. :shock:

If you're interested, here is some additional reading:
The list of 26
leaflets (easy reasing)
SCCNFP (Scientific Committee on Consumer Safety) Opinion Reports on Allergenic Substances
example MSDS see pages 2 and 3.

I know this belongs in the Fragrance oil section, but it seemed adequate to post here too.
So mod feel free to move it, if you find it interesting enough.

 

[cpacamper]

Okay, David (and the rest of you weird, impatient, obsessive, troublemaking wet-shaver dudes)- I just got done cooking and pouring out the experiment you were asking about. It proceeded very well- much less hassle than doing the separating method for sure. I'll have hubby test it out on Thursday and post his findings.

IrishLass

Adjectives I hear quite often for some reason

Thanks IrishLass!

 

[IrishLass]

I'm a little late in reporting back, but hubby has shaved with the 64% KOH/36% NaOH croap that I made by combining both lyes together into one solution and saponifying everything together in one pot, instead of separately saponifying the KOH with the hard fats/stearic in one pot, and saponifying the NaOH with the liquid oils in a separate pot, and then combining them together. The results? Hubby could tell no difference, so I'm going to save myself some trouble and just combine both lyes together into one solution and saponify everything together in one pot from now on.

Also- I just wanted to add some observations that hubby made in regards to the croaps vs my normal 100% NaOH hard pucks..... He told me over the weekend that he found the croaps to be more tricky to lather in comparison to my hard puck. To explain, he said that although the croaps lather very easily in comparison to the puck, he has to be mindful to not add too much water to the croap while loading and lathering or else the cushion is reduced to nil in spite of the resulting lather being quite copious. He said that when he's mindful to not go overboard on the water that the cushion is perfect. With the hard puck, the water amount seems to be less persnickety.

I asked him if I should go back to just making him the 100% NaOH hard puck then, and he said that although he likes both the hard puck and the croap and is quite happy to use either one, he actually prefers the croap for the ease of lather in spite of having to be extra mindful to not add too much water.

My next experiment is to try this:

Stearic acid 40%
Tallow 40%
Mango Butter 20%
100% KOH

I am going to scent it with Barbershop 1920's from AH/RE. I just received a sample of it and hubby said the smell of it is spot-on to the childhood memories he has of waiting in the barbershop for his dad to get done with his shave and trim. I hope the scent does not morph when soaped. I'm kind of concerned about it because some (but not all) of the reviews I read said that it did tend to morph, but since I'll be HPing this batch and adding the FO after the cook, hopefully I'll have better luck. We'll see!

I scented my last croap with Santa's Pipe from SweetCakes, which is a cherry-tobacco scent. It's pretty strong. I only used .3 oz ppo in the croap and hubby said he could smell it on his hands every time he touched his face throughout the day. I asked him if I should take it a notch down to .2 oz ppo and he said no- .3 oz ppo was fine.


IrishLass

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

If I ever meet you, IrishLass, you are getting a hug and a cup of tea.

I am using my few week old 100% KOH at the moment, letting the 45-55 KOH-NaOH rest for a while. I prefer the 100% KOH if I am honest, even though it requires a good amount of water.

 

[LBussy]

I've never thought the croap was sensitive to water, but I may also just be used to it. If it is, it may be because it's already got a pretty good water content?

You're quite a good sport IL.

I'm going to have to get some of that Santa's Pipe. I tried an Almond Marzipan in my last batch and it was spot on with my beloved Cella soap.

 

[reinbeau]

I am going to scent it with Barbershop 1920's from AH/RE. I just received a sample of it and hubby said the smell of it is spot-on to the childhood memories he has of waiting in the barbershop for his dad to get done with his shave and trim. I hope the scent does not morph when soaped. I'm kind of concerned about it because some (but not all) of the reviews I read said that it did tend to morph, but since I'll be HPing this batch and adding the FO after the cook, hopefully I'll have better luck. We'll see!

I'll be very interested to hear what you think of this scent after HPing it. I read the reviews too, and would hate to buy it and use it only to have it descend into baby powder only

 

[Lindy]

IRISHLASS thank you for sharing your experience with us...

 

[DeeAnna]

Um, Lindy, do you mean Irish Lass instead of me? I have said little ... but I really think IL deserves a medal for all she's done to contribute to this thread!

 

[Lindy]

CRAP! Yes I meant IRISH LASS.... one of those days where the mouse fell off the wheel... :-?

 

[cpacamper]

Thanks, IrishLass!

I did a similar experiment last weekend with different results. In my 67/24/9% tallow/SA/CO shave soap, Batch A was made with SA/KOH cooked separately from the other oils and NaOH, Batch B was cooked with all the lye's combined with all the oils. Batch A is slightly more conditioning and slick, and is easier to build a lather on than batch B.

What I found interesting is that when I ran both calculations through soapcalc, Batch A required less total lye by weight than Batch B. When I investigated further, I discovered it takes less KOH to saponify pure stearic acid than it does to saponify the same amount by weight of tallow. Learn something new every day!

 

[dosco]

I am going to scent it with Barbershop 1920's from AH/RE.

AH/RE?

Could you spell that out please? I'm searching for a barbershop scent and that might be the ticket.

 

[LBussy]

I think:

http://rusticescentuals.com/Barbershop-1920-s.html

 

[DWinMadison]

How do you calculate or using BOTH KOH and NaOH in the same recipe? On soapcalc, using the same oils calls for 26.6% NaOH or 33.3% KOH. Not that common sense always works in soaping, but it would dictate one would calculate the recipe twice based on the Percentage of oils used (e.g. 40% of total oils with KOH and 60% with NaOH) then blend the two. Does that make sense? Is there a calculator online that allows you to combine the two in the same formula? Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? Why am I asking so many questions? Is anyone reading this? Am I being paranoid? What was in those 'shrooms I just smoked?