Second Batch today - Beef tallow with coconut sauce

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Why not?
(and dangerous is not a reason)

Well dangerous in soaping generally results in things that you want to be in pots or moulds ending up on the work surface or on you. If the risk to you from a possible volcano isn't important to you, minimizing the chances of having to spoon your first batch from the kitchen floor in to the mould is hopefully higher on your list of priorities.

First batches can also be just in and of themselves a little stressful. Going for a simpler method first of all allows you to get used to the general process at a more manageable pace, even being able to pop a question on here or about through a YouTube video during soaping if you want to double check something.

Lastly, the method itself has no meaningful benefits over normal hp.

 

[Techie Joe]

Well dangerous in soaping generally results in things that you want to be in pots or moulds ending up on the work surface or on you. If the risk to you from a possible volcano isn't important to you, minimizing the chances of having to spoon your first batch from the kitchen floor in to the mould is hopefully higher on your list of priorities.

First batches can also be just in and of themselves a little stressful. Going for a simpler method first of all allows you to get used to the general process at a more manageable pace, even being able to pop a question on here or about through a YouTube video during soaping if you want to double check something.

Lastly, the method itself has no meaningful benefits over normal hp.

Volcano happens, stir it out, simple.
Gloves, glasses, long sleeves, no problem.
Volcanoes happen in Cold Process soap aswel, they spit, and sometimes foam out of the mould
Soap on the floor is only dangerous if you slip on it, whereas you could get really hurt just walking into my workshop.

Hot Process is my chosen starter method because the soap seems to want to be made hot, its where its naturally going, the path of least resistance.
I've done more complicated things before and they have worked out fine.

The last thing I did with caustic soda before this was making a crystal battery, which is still caustic now. Its very difficult to handle the crystal mix while you make it because once you add the cement to the water glass it literally goes rock solid in about 15 minutes, very difficult to pour and get the bubbles out.
In the hot soap process you cook off the caustic element, so your soap is safe to cure around pets and kids.
Sometimes I have family staying over when they are traveling via the airport, so I can make a hot batch and give them some soap the next day, instead of planning 6 weeks in advance which would be next to impossible.

As for meaningful benefits over 1 hour HP, the ten minute fluid method makes soap that is easy to pour and can still be swirled, goes into detailed moulds, and it eliminates an unnecessarily long wait during the last 40+ minutes cook.

About the previous posts, I thought this site was to support and encourage, not dissuade people from pursuing what they want to do. I don't mind genuine reasons if somebody is heading down a "bad road", but HP is normal, lots of people do it and some of them don't do CP at all.
I'm an experimenter and I push the boundaries in everything I do, I'm used to most other people not knowing what I'm about, but I did feel that there was this big warning about doing a 10 minute HP, that several people were engaging in without a good reason, seemingly just because they didn't like me doing it.
I have to say that in future I would appreciate a genuine reason for warning me if you think I'm about to make a mistake or whatever, because I might not be this nice about it. One member who replied didn't even read my post.
Thanks

#post-695530 I wouldn't do that process for now.
#post-695532 I must agree...
#post-695616 I would still strongly suggest not trying this particular hp method first of all. Normal hp if you must, but not this one.
#post-695620 ... don't start with this! The volcano is dangerous even to an experienced person! Don't do it! Just do it as a normal HP thing, don't stick blend that much.
#post-695624 I recommend you just use the traditional Cold Process method

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Are you swirling this time? Putting it in to intricate moulds? Not to mention, there are other ways to get hp fluid enough to pour - as you say, many people (including here) only do hp and have no fluidity issues.

Did you read through the full thread linked early on in this thread? Many people didn't get the promised results for various reasons and people who do exclusively hp preferred other methods.

And again, as you said that danger was no reason not to do it, the soap on the floor wasn't about danger. If you can't stop the volcano (have you ever tried?) then you could end up scooping your soap in to the mould instead of pouring it

 

[Techie Joe]

Are you swirling this time? Putting it in to intricate moulds? Not to mention, there are other ways to get hp fluid enough to pour - as you say, many people (including here) only do hp and have no fluidity issues.

Did you read through the full thread linked early on in this thread? Many people didn't get the promised results for various reasons and people who do exclusively hp preferred other methods.

And again, as you said that danger was no reason not to do it, the soap on the floor wasn't about danger. If you can't stop the volcano (have you ever tried?) then you could end up scooping your soap in to the mould instead of pouring it

Not swirling this time, only using the natural colour
No intricate moulds but there will be in the future
I read the entire thread, found the videos they were talking about and learned from them, and more
I have experienced a volcano and stopped it, its only bubbles, you just stir it.
I have a 6.5 litre cooker for making a 1 or 2 litre batch.

Have you ever tried this process yourself? How did you do, or why not?
What is your favourite method? Why?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

A big slow cooker is better than a smaller one, that is true. The trick is getting it just right that the stick blender is submerged enough but that the batter isn't too high.

I've not done it, as I only hp shaving soaps and I do those in smaller batches (50 to 100g) to try out various options. I do that in the Tupperware in the microwave.

With regular soap I try to avoid scents which need to be hp'd and I don't need to try to selectively superfat. Plus I tend to make larger batches and there aren't many options for a reasonable slow cooker which is big enough. There is no need to hp and less options for it, so I just cp.

So I wouldn't say that I have a favourite in that sense, just the method that gives me the result I need for what I am doing at that particular time.

 

[Techie Joe]

This beef lard batch will be small so I may have to tilt the cooker just to get the blender under the liquid.

You know you can use a big pot on the stove. Once the process starts it keeps itself hot.
Check out this 44 minute video about the hot fluid method, hes an engineer using a huge pot and commercial blender.
His recipe calls for clay and other stuff but he tells you what you need to know without complicating the process.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

See now that is different - large pot, no extra heat source once the oils are hot, good stirring once the volcano starts. I've seen too many where it's just crazy stuff going on.

Now I wonder if I could use a paint mixer on a cordless drill instead of a large stick blender............

 

[Kamahido]

Volcano happens, stir it out, simple.
Gloves, glasses, long sleeves, no problem.
Volcanoes happen in Cold Process soap aswel, they spit, and sometimes foam out of the mould
Soap on the floor is only dangerous if you slip on it, whereas you could get really hurt just walking into my workshop.

Hot Process is my chosen starter method because the soap seems to want to be made hot, its where its naturally going, the path of least resistance.
I've done more complicated things before and they have worked out fine.

The last thing I did with caustic soda before this was making a crystal battery, which is still caustic now. Its very difficult to handle the crystal mix while you make it because once you add the cement to the water glass it literally goes rock solid in about 15 minutes, very difficult to pour and get the bubbles out.
In the hot soap process you cook off the caustic element, so your soap is safe to cure around pets and kids.
Sometimes I have family staying over when they are traveling via the airport, so I can make a hot batch and give them some soap the next day, instead of planning 6 weeks in advance which would be next to impossible.

As for meaningful benefits over 1 hour HP, the ten minute fluid method makes soap that is easy to pour and can still be swirled, goes into detailed moulds, and it eliminates an unnecessarily long wait during the last 40+ minutes cook.

About the previous posts, I thought this site was to support and encourage, not dissuade people from pursuing what they want to do. I don't mind genuine reasons if somebody is heading down a "bad road", but HP is normal, lots of people do it and some of them don't do CP at all.
I'm an experimenter and I push the boundaries in everything I do, I'm used to most other people not knowing what I'm about, but I did feel that there was this big warning about doing a 10 minute HP, that several people were engaging in without a good reason, seemingly just because they didn't like me doing it.
I have to say that in future I would appreciate a genuine reason for warning me if you think I'm about to make a mistake or whatever, because I might not be this nice about it. One member who replied didn't even read my post.
Thanks

#post-695530 I wouldn't do that process for now.
#post-695532 I must agree...
#post-695616 I would still strongly suggest not trying this particular hp method first of all. Normal hp if you must, but not this one.
#post-695620 ... don't start with this! The volcano is dangerous even to an experienced person! Don't do it! Just do it as a normal HP thing, don't stick blend that much.
#post-695624 I recommend you just use the traditional Cold Process method

Incorrect. This site is NOT here to support, encourage, etc. You posted in the "Recipe Feedback" section which means you came here for our advice. We gave it to you. However your attitude suggests you believe that we know nothing. Please refrain from asking for our advice if you don't really want it.

 

[Techie Joe]

Incorrect. This site is NOT here to support, encourage, etc. You posted in the "Recipe Feedback" section which means you came here for our advice. We gave it to you. However your attitude suggests you believe that we know nothing. Please refrain from asking for our advice if you don't really want it.

I already explained the difference between constructive criticism, and telling someone not to bother.

Based on what I have already said, how do you assume that I believe you know nothing?

 

[Kamahido]

Read post #21 and #24.

 

[Techie Joe]

Your going to have to be more specific than that.

"Just use the traditional Cold Process method", is not advice on hot process

"SMF enjoys the reputation of being one of the friendliest, most helpful soap making forums on the net"

 

[Kamahido]

"If fluidity is all you are after I recommend you just use the traditional Cold Process method" is the correct quote.

 

[Techie Joe]

This useless confrontation has gone on for 2 pages now, I'm starting to think I'm being trolled.

The thread is about a hot process, and your "advice" is to use the cold process, its not even relevant.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Often advice needs to be borderline irrelevant because people may not have considered other options to get to their goal. If you wanted to do this method just to have a fluid batter, then the advice to use cp is good advice. If you want to have fluid batter AND another benefit of hp (but actual benefit, not "no or less cure time") then it's not going to help. But often people wouldn't have thought of going outside of the box in a certain way.

 

[MullersLaneFarm]

Sometimes I have family staying over when they are traveling via the airport, so I can make a hot batch and give them some soap the next day, instead of planning 6 weeks in advance which would be next to impossible.

Your HP soap still requires the 6 week cure time that a CP soap does.

Combined with you wanting the fluidity in your soap batch, CP would be the way to go.

 

[Techie Joe]

Your HP soap still requires the 6 week cure time that a CP soap does.

Combined with you wanting the fluidity in your soap batch, CP would be the way to go.

Yes, it still needs cure time but is not caustic like CP, and therefore safe to handle and have around kids and pets. They don't have to start using it right away.

In this HP you finish the processing before you cast the soap, there are no surprises like mould volcanoes, or Children tasting your sweet caustic cakes. I'm sure there are other benefits I haven't discovered yet, but I think this HP is safer.

Its not just about fluidity, "Hot Process is my chosen starter method because the soap seems to want to be made hot, its where its naturally going, the path of least resistance."

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

But there are also times when hp won't be appropriate, because of the heat. In certain instances people cool their soap to prevent it even gelling

 

[Techie Joe]

Often advice needs to be borderline irrelevant because people may not have considered other options to get to their goal. If you wanted to do this method just to have a fluid batter, then the advice to use cp is good advice. If you want to have fluid batter AND another benefit of hp (but actual benefit, not "no or less cure time") then it's not going to help. But often people wouldn't have thought of going outside of the box in a certain way.

I agree, I like advice that comes from places I never anticipated, but it has to be reasonable or at least be going somewhere, that is the only thing that separates it from just random thoughts (though often they are welcome aswel, within reason).

I think a paint stirrer would be too big, I'm thinking something like a clothes hanger with a 90 degree bend (or a 7 shape or a small triangle) at the bottom, and hammered flat along that end to scoop the batter (like a mini golf putter). But if the weight is too much off-center it will cause some vibration when you run it, it might be okay as long as it doesn't get worse and start bending all over the place.
If you want to reinforce it you could solder or braze 3 straight hanger pieces together as the shaft, or just get a thicker piece of steel rod or threaded bar from the hardware shop, 4 or 6mm might do.
You could make a large stirrer for the big pot and a small one for the tupperware if you want (and you might need a lid/cover for the tupperware with a slotted hole in it, just for stirring)
Its a good idea you have there, I might do it myself too.

PS. Steel bends better when its hot, heat up the end in a fire or gas cooker, then put the hot end into a vice for an inch or so, then bend the bar down by hand (don't forget your work gloves and goggles, its the danger zone). It can also be hammered while hot.

 

[Sandra@SS]

I see your reasons for trying a new method Techie.
Some people will suggest the ways they believe are best, eloquently or otherwise.
Not everyone has eloquence at all times, in all places.
Sometimes we are abrupt, and earnest.
People are like that.
If your a 5%'er you would know that by now.
5%ers arent aberations, they are extremists. They like being (very) different.
Nothing wrong with bucking the system.
5am soothing post done...possibly with out much eloquence

I look forward to hearing how your batch went, and how it measured up to your expectations, and where you would make alterations next time. Fingers crossed your still in a fit state to type after your volcano

 

[penelopejane]

Yes, it still needs cure time but is not caustic like CP, and therefore safe to handle and have around kids and pets. They don't have to start using it right away.

In this HP you finish the processing before you cast the soap, there are no surprises like mould volcanoes, or Children tasting your sweet caustic cakes. I'm sure there are other benefits I haven't discovered yet, but I think this HP is safer.."

I don’t really think this is a valid argument:
It’s like saying we only eat salads because having a cooktop would be too dangerous around kids.

You still have stored caustic in the house.

When you’ve made a CP and an HP and a fluid HP. You’ll be able to compare the final products and the processes and get a better idea of what people are trying to say to help you with your soaping.