My Soap is bleeding... Break out the bandages...

[judymoody]

Mish, let me offer some friendly unsolicited advice. If you began soaping in December, you are not ready to sell. If you are following recipes to the letter - how do you know those recipes are any good? Have you been running them through a lye calculator? Slow down a bit and do a lot of testing before you put anything out on the market. Measure everything and take good notes. I would hate to be judged as a soapmaker based on the quality of my early batches. They were perfectly good, but I got much better.

I am not going to pile on about essential oil weights. If your batch size exceeded 2 pounds of oil (seems like it from the picture) then you probably did not overdo on the fragrance. 3% is roughly .5 oz/PPO, by the way.

I suspect you overdid on the honey and given that it still retained some honey taste and odor, I suspect it did not saponify and formed the pockets you describe. 1 T PPO is a good place to start for an amount of honey in soap.

 

[Lindy]

Shawnee you and I both... it would be nice wouldn't it.

 

[melstan775]

I have to just chime in here real quick Mish. I am sure you're excited about soap making. I am too, and I only started soaping in February, after years of interest and part time studying and reading. And I still have a bazillion questions. Soapmaking is like golf - it takes patience, a steady hand, an understanding of the course, and time. Lots and lots of time. And patience. The experienced soapers on this board recommend running all recipes through a soap calculator, even other people's recipes. Some are not right, some have discounts they don't tell you about, and some have uncorrected typos, so you never know if you're even making the correct thing.

You can use soapcalc.net's lye calculator to double check recipes. Plug in your oil amounts and it will tell you how much lye and water to use. you can play with your numbers, adjust your pounds of oils, scale your recipe between using grams and ounces, etc. It's very useful. It will also show you recommended ranges for different soap properties and has a page on properties of those recommendations. Have a look and a play, that's your best bet for making your own recipes in my opinion.

 

[Mish]

I always use http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp. I used it to understand the qualities of the recipes I read about and to modify the recipes’ I saw in my books to fit the size mold that I have...

Also I didn't just start making soap in December - and I said this in my earlier thread but somehow only part of it was read and addressed. I started making my own recipes’ in December, before then I have been following other people's recipes from books and yes using a lye calculator for one year. (I only consider myself soaping since December because I've been experimenting with different oils and making my own recipes instead of following other people's published recipes)

I would also like to reiterate I haven't sold any of my experiments...

I’ve read lots of material but it doesn’t touch on everything and I’ve also read things that are conflicting that is why I started doing my own experimental batches and joined this community here… (I even read in a book believe it or not that someone said you can’t use too much honey – which is obviously crap)

I’ve spent so much money on my soap passion that I made the decision to sell some of the recipes that I know are good that I have been doing for a year now to support my being able to continue making soap and learning to be a “real soaper” – as I put it. I am in no way selling soaps to profit but to merely help contribute to cost of material. The market is saturated with home made soaps… I have no plan to quit my day job but my day job can’t pay for me to live and support my soap passion.

I've learned a bit in my very short time here and I thank many of you who have chimed in with support and suggestions.

But I am not feeling really awesome right now because how many times and how many different people need to come down on me? Also I would appreciate it if you are to come down on me that you fully read what I had to say and address all points and not just half read and go on assumption.

I'm not sure if this is the type of community I want to be a part of…

 

[danahuff]

Mish, I think there has just been some misunderstanding. I think everyone just wants to help. I don't think they were trying to come down on you or anything. I hope you will give us a chance.

 

[karol]

Mish, I don't think anyone is being critical. You've been given some good advice. You stated in a post in February that you had only been making CP soap for two months. Take your time and perfect your craft, especially before selling to the public at large. There is so much more to the business of soaping than just a good bar of soap. It's important to understand FDA labeling laws, the safe use of ingredients and so on. Hopefully you have liability insurance in place too.

Forums like these are a perfect way to continue to learn, especially from each other. No one is here to discourage you, but take what has been suggested here to heart and learn from it. These suggestions come from talented, long-time successful soapers.

 

[Mish]

Karol, Yes, I did a very quick and vague introduction with no real thought behind it in February, perhaps I should have elaborated a little more then.

I definitely have taken suggestions and recommendations to heart for sure.

At what point does one have to get liability insurance? I've only posted like 3 or 4 different bars on etsy for sale... I labeled them with all of their ingredients, wt, description and now thnx to Shawnee's advice regarding not putting EO advantages on my description I have removed that and will not do that again… I didn’t realize that brought it into a drug realm.

At what point would you say in all of your opinions it is safe to sell a recipe you have made?

I assumed that if you have done a recipe more than once and have used it then it should be fine… Or do you have to make a recipe know its good but also let a bar sit in your closet for a year without using it and see what happens to it? (that I have not done)

Sorry if I came off jerky in my last post... I think it is a combination of my being too sensitive right now and also slightly twisted at not all points being taken into account. I understand and appreciate the concerns and advice given.

 

[karol]

I had liability insurance in place before I started selling to the public. I started out giving soap to family and then it expanded to friends. It was at this point that I got my insurance in place. It's just not worth the risk if someone has an allergic reaction or something. It can be purchased for a reasonable price from RLI.

I also had my business license and registration in order too.

I didn't sell to the public for at least 1 1/2 years. I felt really comfortable with my recipe by then and had enough bars under my belt to know what eo's or fo's faded, etc. I felt like once I put my name on a bar of soap, my reputation was at stake. I want to turn out the best bar that I could. Granted, I think we all continue to learn and grow in our craft, that's the exiciting thing, and I know I'm still constantly learning new things.

 

[Mish]

Karol, What about having a disclaimer like this one below?
"While many herbs, essential oils, and other natural ingredients in our handmade soaps are believed to have healing properties, they are not to be used to self-medicate or treat any form of disease or health problem. Information and statements regarding health related benefits of certain ingredients are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. (Although I no longer list EO benefits so I may not need this part?)

Company name is not responsible for any individual reaction to any particular ingredient. Each product description on our page includes a complete list of ingredients."

I say the ingredients are listed I am not responsible if you have an allergy... maybe I should also suggest doing as patch test?

I get regardless of disclaimers sometimes people just like to sue people and some people are con artists and this is what they do... So if I had ins and someone had an allergic reaction and tried to sue - having insurance would what just pay these people off instead of me having to pay for a lawyer and court fees… Is that basically the bottom line?

 

[karol]

I don't have a disclaimer on any of my products; however, I have labeled them correctly. I think that people with allergies do read labels and are educated consumers.

It annoys me when soapers make claims about what their soap will do...cure this rash, etc. By law, we can't say it will do anything other than it will clean! Here's a great link to familiarize yourself with: http://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/ucm074201.htm

I guess anyone could sue. Peace of mind comes because I am comfortable with my recipe, I know I've got the correct amount of eo or fo in my product, it's not lye heavy, and I've got the necessary licenses/insurance in place to protect me.

 

[Badger]

Mish,
I am the paranoid sort and think that putting a disclaimer on the soap would make them get the idea of suing me over anything silly. I don't think that the disclaimer will actually protect you if someone decided to sue you and take you to court, and the disclaimer would not pay for the court fees. On the other hand, having a disclaimer like that on your soaps may turn some people off from your soap and make people think that handmade soaps cause allergic reactions all the time. As for your comment about herbs and essential oils, I don't believe that it is legal to even say that they may have healing properties. Most people either will know about or research on their own the healing properties of items and know what they are looking for or will not care as much and go for either label appeal of something being natural or the fact that something looks or smells nice.

I have not sold my soaps yet, but this is the impression I have gotten from what other people have written and from my own experiences in buying homemade soaps. I know for myself that before I start selling, I will be getting insurance. I am on a very tight budget and doing this will not be easy for me, but I need to protect myself and my potential business.

 

[Mish]

I've never said the soap will cure any aliments but I have made the mistake of listing essential oils benefits in general, but have since corrected that mistake. I just figure one may pay so much a month for insurance in the event that he/she may get sued. Many years of paying the insurance may have ultimately cost you more than if lets say in some unlucky event one gets sued and pays for a lawyer and court fees out of pocket...

I was thinking of the disclaimer more on the website and not on the labels... I see many if not almost all people have a disclaimer of some sorts on their product websites...

 

[Genny]

I was thinking of the disclaimer more on the website and not on the labels... I see many if not almost all people have a disclaimer of some sorts on their product websites...

A disclaimer about allergies of ingredients and how to use a product on your website is a good idea.

For cosmetics (lip balms, scrubs, butters, etc) your label requires a warning & caution statement

"Warning and caution statements. These must be prominent and conspicuous. The FD&C Act and related regulations specify warning and caution statements related to specific products [21 CFR part 740]. In addition, cosmetics that may be hazardous to consumers must bear appropriate label warnings [21 CFR 740.1]. Flammable cosmetics are an example."
http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/CosmeticLabelingLabelClaims/default.htm

 

[Lindy]

I had insurance before I sold my first bar and it is what is recommended. The least expensive way of getting insurance is through HSMG (www.soapguild.org) plus there are some wonderful resources available to members.

 

[Mommysoaper]

I got my ins through the HSCG (used to be HSMG) before I even sold anything. I wanted to make sure I was covered on the off chance family or friends had issues. Thankfully, nothing has happened, but it feels great and is a relief to have all your bases covered. Good luck and hang in there!

 

[Mish]

@ MommySoaper thnx I'm trying to hang in there but feeling a bit overwhelmed I suppose.

@ Lindy I will check out the Soapguild.

Thank you all.

Mish