Ingredients good for lotion?

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narnia

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Are these ingredients a good combo for lotion? I saw it on someone's site.

Goat's Milk, Coconut Oil, Sunflower Oil, Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, Antioxidant Complex of Gingko Biloba, Green Tea, Olive Leaf Extracts, Potassium Sorbate, Vitamin E Oil, Grapefruit Seed Extract, and Essential Oil
 

DeeAnna

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As I said in your other thread, a lotion with a high % of goat milk is going to be difficult to preserve. Lindy shared a recipe for her goat milk lotion and stressed that 12% milk is as high as one should go for safety. I'm not sure the reasons why, but knowing Lindy I'm sure the number is based on good reasons. Here is her thread on this lotion: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=48113

I don't see a broad spectrum preservative in this list. Grapefruit seed extract is not a preservative. The Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60 is the emulsifier. The coconut oil and sunflower oil are really the backbone of the lotion. They're inexpensive fats and will make a decent basic lotion. Maybe someone will comment on the additives -- I don't have an opinion.
 

narnia

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As I said in your other thread, a lotion with a high % of goat milk is going to be difficult to preserve. Lindy shared a recipe for her goat milk lotion and stressed that 12% milk is as high as one should go for safety. I'm not sure the reasons why, but knowing Lindy I'm sure the number is based on good reasons. Here is her thread on this lotion: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=48113

I don't see a broad spectrum preservative in this list. Grapefruit seed extract is not a preservative. The Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60 is the emulsifier. The coconut oil and sunflower oil are really the backbone of the lotion. They're inexpensive fats and will make a decent basic lotion. Maybe someone will comment on the additives -- I don't have an opinion.
I thought that this might be a low-budget lotion recipe....but then the person added all those other ingredients...which I don't understand.

What exactly would be the emulsifier? Is it E-wax NF?

In terms of milk %, one person on Youtube, who makes and sells GM lotion, uses 50% milk and 50% water + oils + EO + preservative and said that the lotion lasts for 6 months to a year. I did make that recipe in early January and the lotion is still good. No problems. She pasteurized her milk first.
 

dixiedragon

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I think if you try to build a recipe based on a list of ingredients from a commercially-available product, you're going to be disappointed. Big companies have access to equipment and supplies we can only dream about. Also, they have highly educated employees whose jobs it is to help them remain in compliance with labeling regulations while maintaining maximum label appeal.

An example from the food industry: Sugar is "bad" and sweetened with fruit is "good". So many companies are now sweetening their foods with deionized fruit juice. Basically this is a way of running fruit juice through a process that removes all of the fruit flavor, vitamins, etc, and producing sugar water. But on the package of ingredients, they get to list "apple juice" vs some type of sugar (anything ending in 'ose').
 

DeeAnna

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I thought that this might be a low-budget lotion recipe....but then the person added all those other ingredients...which I don't understand.

What exactly would be the emulsifier? Is it E-wax NF?

In terms of milk %, one person on Youtube, who makes and sells GM lotion, uses 50% milk and 50% water + oils + EO + preservative and said that the lotion lasts for 6 months to a year. I did make that recipe in early January and the lotion is still good. No problems. She pasteurized her milk first.
The additives might not be all that expensive. Not sure -- I haven't spent any time checking prices. As far as the CO and sunflower -- a person doesn't have to spend a fortune on ingredients to make a very nice lotion. I think a lot of us (including myself) sometimes look down on "common" ingredients just because they're inexpensive. Maybe this is one of those instances where we are misjudging the quality of the product because the fats are not exotic and expensive?

Yes, the emulsifier is e-wax.

Did the lotion maker do a challenge test and pass with flying colors? If not, I am skeptical that higher amounts of milk are wise. Lindy's recipes have had to be reviewed and approved by Health Canada if she sells them. I trust Lindy over someone who says a lotion looks fine. Bacteria growth isn't always obvious to the eye.
 

narnia

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Would it be OK to add argan and jojoba oils to the lotion recipe in the place of some of the soft oils?
 

DeeAnna

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Yes, you could! I've used both. Argan has a distinctive scent something like leafy celery -- so use with caution until you know how you like the scent. Jojoba is very nice, it has a very mild odor, and has a long shelf life.
 

narnia

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Yes, you could! I've used both. Argan has a distinctive scent something like leafy celery -- so use with caution until you know how you like the scent. Jojoba is very nice, it has a very mild odor, and has a long shelf life.
Thank you! What % of these oils would be good?

I read Lindy's thread and have questions....If using glycerine for making lotion,, what % of the water would be good? Can I sub 100% of the water with glycerine AND use goat milk with it? Also....what is the purpose of holding the oils in heat for 20 minutes? Is it because GM is being used?

I read Swiftcraftymonkey's lotion making article. She also used the double boiler but did not hold the heat for 20 minutes. Is this necessary? I have seen others use the microwave...

I found video tutorials for making lotion. They used the microwave to melt the oils and butter. They do not temper the oils in heat. What would be the result of NOT doing it? Does microwaving sub for the 20 minute tempering of the oils?

Sorry...I have soooo many questions!
 

DeeAnna

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Okay, so I'm really confused -- the post of yours I'd responded to in Lindy's goat milk lotion tutorial is now gone. So I moved my answer over to this thread:

I really doubt you would want to use all glycerin in place of water -- it would be very sticky and unpleasant. Humectants like glycerin are typically used around a few percent in lotions. My notes call for glycerin at 2-3% of the total ingredients.

Heat and hold at 160 deg F is done for two reasons. One is sanitation; heating and holding at that temperature minimizes living cooties in your product. Don't expect your preservative to do the job of killing off existing organisms -- start with a sanitary product to have the best chance of the product staying sanitary for a long time. The other is emulsification; heating and holding improves the stability of the emulsion you are trying to make.

I personally would not substitute microwave heating of the fats for heat-and-hold of all ingredients. Consequences -- Possible emulsion failure. Product is less sanitary to begin with. Shorter shelf life due to early preservative failure.

Susan at Swift crafty monkey is the go-to person for this kind of information: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/ You said you read Susan's lotion making tutorial -- but she's got a lot of lotion recipes on her website, so I haven't a clue which one you're talking about. Here is her Snapguide tutorial on making a lotion -- she does use a 20 minute heat and hold here: https://snapguide.com/guides/make-a-lotion/

Regarding the argan or jojoba -- there are many, many possibilities. Why don't you propose a recipe and then we can go from there? Also, have you made any lotions at all? If not, why not pick one basic recipe suggested by a reputable person -- perhaps Lindy's goat milk recipe -- and just try it? When you have some experience under your belt, I think some of your questions will be moot.
 
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lenarenee

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To help you decide what oils/butters to include in your recipe, try spreading a small amount of each on your skin to see if you like them.
 

Dahila

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I do think it is a waste of time, When someone is spending time on Susan's blog and asking if heat and hold is necessary....................eh
Narnia you need to start from the base, the simplest lotion when you make it like 4 times without the fail start adding one little thing, Watch for botanicals, too many of them Epic lotion fail
 

narnia

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Sorry DeeAnna, I did not see any replies when I moved that question to this thread, since I was not sure if I should be asking these questions on an old thread. You must have been typing when I was deleting the other post.

This is the article that I read, which did not mention heat and hold:
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=lotion
 
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cmzaha

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Here is a good link for beginning lotion making that mention heat and hold. This is from Susan
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1020026/lotionmakingtutorial.pdf
As much as I use milks in soaps I cannot bring myself to use a lotion with milk. Something about smearing milk on my skin and leaving it really yucks me out. I simply would not make and sell or give-away a milk lotion without having it challenge tested.
 

IrishLass

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Right here, silly!
Narnia- when I clinked on the link, it landed me on an article talking about lotion bars, but further down the page there are a handful of articles with a few different lotion recipes. Was there a specific recipe you were looking at?

For what it's worth, in the first lotion recipe that I can see on the link (the Rice Bran & Mango Butter body lotion recipe) Susan/Swiftcraftymonkey includes a link near the bottom of the entry that says "Check out this post on lotion making for newbies", which takes you to a page that includes instructions for heating and holding. I think that the reason she does not specifically use the phrase 'heat and hold' in the main text of the recipe entry (but supplies that link for newbies) is because it is assumed that those attempting the recipe are experienced lotion-makers who know about the need to heat & hold. Direction #1 in the text of the lotion instructions bears that out via the link she supplies on how to compensate for water loss, which is a common occurrence during the heat & hold phase (a fair amount of water can evaporate in 20-minute's time @ 160F).

Here's one of Susan's (Swiftcraftymonkey's) treatises on the reason why it is important to heat and hold: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/04/argument-for-heating-holding-lotions.html



IrishLass :)
 

DeeAnna

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In Susan's articles about lotion recipes, she doesn't always go deeply into the method of making lotions. She is expecting her readers to do their homework by reading her other articles that give the how-to. The Snapguide I mentioned, IL's link, and the resources here -- http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2014/07/more-posts-for-beginners.html -- will get you going with the details.

I really do recommend that you make a simple lotion to get some experience with the method, and then you can branch out from there. I can't recommend Susan's information and beginner recipes enough. Here's a good first-time recipe with full method -- http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2012/01/newbie-tuesday-its-time-to-make-lotion.html
 

narnia

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Thanks so much, DeeAnna!

I wonder...could the heat and hold phase be done in the oven, since it can stay at a constant temp?
 

Susie

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Thanks so much, DeeAnna!

I wonder...could the heat and hold phase be done in the oven, since it can stay at a constant temp?
You need to follow the directions exactly as written until you have enough experience to understand exactly WHY those directions are written exactly that way.
 
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