I Have a Request

[thinkativeone]

One of my online friends had a baby, and the baby eventually had trouble with itchy, flaky skin and was tearing at it, even with mittens. So I sent her a couple bars of my 5% superfatted 100% olive oil soap that I made from my last batch. Enough, I figured, so they could try it too. They loved it! In fact, they want me to make more (ETA - DISCLAIMER: This soap is NOT for the baby. Only the unscented 100% olive oil soap is for the baby). I've warned that it takes a really long time to perfect in drying. I think what I sent was about 4-5 months old which is when I find it starts to feel really nice and lose most of the sliminess, but I know 6+ months is best.

Thing is, they want me to make some organic EO scented soaps for them, too. For my friend's husband, she wants a tea tree soap for the antibacterial properties. But, if I can make it smell a bit more masculine she said another EO in there to do that would be nice.

She is also interested in lavender/vanilla (but I explained the vanilla not being cost-effective) and orange.

All my soaps have been unscented thus far but my understanding is that you add about .5 oz. of EO per lb. of soap and add at trace, mix in, and pour into molds.

The cure time is going to be difficult and hot process can be so ugly. I don't know whether to add coconut for more hardness or butters, or what.

Thoughts? Advice?

 

[soap_bubbles]

1 oz ppo of oil for EO's waaaaay to much--.5 oz ppo or 3% of your weight is the way to go for EO's. Rather than a full 100% OO, what about 85% with the 15% being made up with cocoa butter for hardness and coconut or castor for bubbles? That's where I would start.

 

[thinkativeone]

1 oz ppo of oil for EO's waaaaay to much--.5 oz ppo or 3% of your weight is the way to go for EO's. Rather than a full 100% OO, what about 85% with the 15% being made up with cocoa butter for hardness and coconut or castor for bubbles? That's where I would start.

Thanks soap_bubbles. No idea why my brain said 1, I went and checked the last place where they mentioned "rounding up for extra scent oomph" and they wrote .5 oz. So I edited. I'm glad it's less, since EOs can get insanely expensive.

The trouble with coconut is Jedwards, where I want to buy - will be getting more in by the end of June (refined).

Question - do you find a difference between using unrefined and refined coconut oil in soapmaking? I use unrefined in eating, and it is pricier. I figured the refined would be fine because you're making soap out of it, not eating it. :roll: But on the other hand, I also read that unrefined leaves a pleasant coconut odor. Does anyone know which is best for soap, or if unrefined has a place in it?

Could I use shea at 15% as well if I choose to use a butter? I'll ask her which she prefers but cocoa has a distinct aroma that I personally love, but not everybody does.

 

[VanessaP]

You can use whatever butter at a high percentage. I make an OMH with 20% cocoa or shea butter (just depending on which butter I have enough of at that time) and it is divine. Personally, soap is a wash off item so I would go with the cheaper coconut oil since most of the oil's properties are going to be changed by the lye to begin with.

 

[soap_bubbles]

I soap with refined coconut oil, although I cook with the unrefined! I love shea, cocoa and mango butters in soap!

 

[thinkativeone]

Hmmm. What percentages olive oil, coconut oil, and cocoa butter would be good then? Because 85% OO and 15% cocoa butter would leave no room for CO. I'm forming a plan from this for one soap. It could have the orange EO in it so it would smell like chocolate-orange, which I think might be a nice combo. What do you all think? I'll have to wait till late June but Jedwards e-mailed me today (yay! perfect timing!) and they will set some aside for me when it comes in. I agree about the refined. I love my unrefined for eating, and for anything I have to apply that STAYS on (lip balm, body butter - smells heavenly btw) but for soap organic refined seems fine.

As for lavender, I'm not finding any organic lavender EO that isn't outrageously expensive for soaping. A lavender-orange blend would be nice, but I'm also getting massively frustrated with all the differences between lavender EOs out there. There's lavender angustifolia, then there's a slightly different version of lavender angustifolia called lavender 40-42 (have not found an organic variety at all for that) that has been tinkered with more for consistency in aroma, but will not have therapeutic benefits, and then there's spike lavender, which appears to have SOME therapeutic benefits, but tends to have more of a camphor odor, I read. Blah!

What EO would create a masculine soap when added with tea tree EO? That's not too terribly expensive, that is? :think:

 

[kazmi]

what about a cedar (masculine) or spearmint (universal) with tea tree? Or rosemary? I don't have my EO book with me while I'm writing this so I don't know what the therapeutic benefits would be for them but they should be inexpensive. This is strictly for your friend and not the baby, right?

 

[thinkativeone]

what about a cedar (masculine) or spearmint (universal) with tea tree? Or rosemary? I don't have my EO book with me while I'm writing this so I don't know what the therapeutic benefits would be for them but they should be inexpensive. This is strictly for your friend and not the baby, right?

The unscented is for the baby. They used some of it for themselves and loved it and want me to make scented soap for them now. I was wondering if spearmint would be nice with tea tree - that bar is for her hubby and she wanted a masculine touch but left it up to me what to add with the tea tree. What EO book do you have? I would love to check that out from the library. Not sure if rosemary is very masculine, though I like it for myself. :-D I'm not sure if cocoa butter would do well with tea tree, the smell might be awful together so maybe I should use shea in that bar. ETA on the other hand though, maybe a manly man bar doesn't need butters in it at all! Not sure how to "man" it up enough. ETA2: I just remembered my DH is allergic to cedar so I'm not sure if it would bother him or not. I'm also not seeing any organic sources for that as an EO though.

 

[new12soap]

Depending on the age of the baby, nothing but olive oil (no coconut no cocoa butter, no fragrance, no nothing else) would be best.

Essential Depot and Liberty Naturals both have some reasonably priced EO's, I think they may even have some organics.

If you decide to use cocoa butter in your formula for the adults, I don't think the scent survives, so that should not be a concern.

 

[thinkativeone]

new12soap That's why I gave them 100% castile olive oil soap for the baby, with no EOs added. The soaps with other things in it would be for the parents and their (older) kids (if they'll share them... :razz. I never planned on making anything but unscented for the baby. I'll make certain she knows the EO/other carrier oil soap is not for him though.

Essential Depot claims they have organic EOs but I will not buy them if they are not certified organic. They state they are working on becoming certified without passing on the costs, but I haven't seen it happen yet. I get my lye from them though. So far the least expensive I've found for certified organic ingredients has been Costco (OO), Jedwards, and Mountain Rose Herbs. I haven't looked at Liberty Naturals recently but I'll check.

Really? I've heard that the cocoa butter that isn't deodorized does carry over into the finished product. I haven't tested that for myself though.

 

[soap_bubbles]

I have used 'regular' cocoa and shea and the smell does carry thru the soaping process but not overly strong. Just kinda smoky.

 

[Lotus]

Thinkative, about your question of what to make with your tea tree. I have a request for a tea tree/fir needle soap. I just recently ordered them. And I can't WAIT to use them. But, it's worth considering. I'll let you know when I get them, if the combination actually is rather masculine. I will obviously test them blended before using them in an entire soap. : )

 

[thinkativeone]

soap_bubbles That's great to know!

Lotus, AWESOME. I was totally looking at fir to go with tea tree and wondering if that would be an option! It's kinda expensive but I love how it smells myself, so I could keep a little for us from these batches. It'd be great for my husband too. Definitely let me know what you think! What would I do without you guys?

 

[Lotus]

Hey! My pleasure! I will. I forgot you want organic. I have no idea what it costs organic, but I found it to be pretty cheap, here:

http://www.brambleberry.com/Fir-Needle-Essential-Oil-Siberian-P3826.aspx

 

[judymoody]

Hi Thinkative - if you want organic EOs, Liberty Natural and New Directions Aromatics will probably be the most cost effective. Mountain Rose Herbs will probably be a bit pricier. They are all good companies.

I would stick with the 100% OO for baby, adding coconut might be drying or irritating. If you take a steep water discount it will help a bit, but as you say, it will still need months of cure time to be at its best. For the adults, assuming they don't have sensitive skin, you could play around a bit. You might try 70% OO, 20% coconut, 5% cocoa butter and 5% castor at 8-10% superfat.

Lavender and tea tree is very nice together and smells masculine. Or Lavender/Rosemary/Mint.

 

[thinkativeone]

Hi judymoody, I'm going to go edit my original post. I was trying to say that the unscented OO soap for the baby was liked so well that they wanted me to make different soaps for the rest of the family. I never intended for any of the fragranced soap with other oils to be used for the baby and I made sure they knew this. Anything else is too harsh IMO. I plan on sticking with 5% superfat since the weather is getting warm. Thanks for the EO tips.

ETA (Man, lots of edits today) I forgot to mention that I looked at both Liberty Natural and New Directions Aromatics and I am not seeing ANY certified organic EOs at either company. MRH is more expensive but theirs are certified organic. Jedwards has a few certified organic but not as many, though theirs are cheaper.

 

[thinkativeone]

I hate to double post but I have an update. Before I get to that I will say that I did find a small selection of certified organic EOs at New Directions Aromatics, but the prices were sometimes more expensive than MRH. I hunted but did not find any organic EOs at LN.

My update is that I went searching, figuring out what I would need to make a couple batches (4 lbs each at minimum) of EO fragranced soap for her, and for us to have the rest. She really wanted more than two separately fragranced types of soap but even 2 is pushing it for me, price-wise. I got shipping quotes for most, but not even everything I'd need to make two types of soaps and instantly became overwhelmed by the price. There's just no way I can do it. I'm completely happy to sell her bars from my already dried batch of castile (unscented, pure OO) for the baby, and make more this weekend to start drying. But the EOs for the soaps for the adults (those especially) and the amount of CO and cocoa butter I would need to significantly invest in to take advantage of the bulk pricing. I don't have (and don't expect to have anytime soon) the funds necessary for that AND the soap I have to make to keep my own household provided for. (I need to make an 8 lb. batch of 100% CO for cleaning once CO is in stock.) I would really love to work with EOs now but I'm a realist and probably the soonest that can happen is maybe in preparation for Christmas. I'm guessing mid to late fall. And even then it'd be the basics. If any sooner it'd just be plain 'ol orange.

You're probably wondering where I'm going with this. :yawn: I was wondering if any of you might be interested in selling her some soap? I can tell you what she's after. She wants lavender, and originally wanted lavender/vanilla to smell pretty for herself. She knows I won't use fragrance oils but for all I know she may be open to using them herself if it gets her the scents she wants. She wants a tea tree EO soap with a masculine EO added to it for her hubby, who gets scraped up and needs the antiseptic properties. And it also sounds like she's interested in a coffee and/or coffee/vanilla soap. She was also interested in rose florals but not sure how seriously. If anyone's interested please let me know. We can PM and I can tell her that I'm happy to make the baby castile soap for her but too overwhelmed to do the rest, and refer her to you! Win-win!

 

[Lotus]

Hey. I know overwhelming only too well. By the way, the tea tree with the fir needle turned out surprisingly girly and similar to sniffing a lavender plant straight up , in an odd way.

I would be happy to oblige to your situation, but I'm just not ready, yet. EOs do end up adding up, eh?

Good luck!

 

[thinkativeone]

Hey. I know overwhelming only too well. By the way, the tea tree with the fir needle turned out surprisingly girly and similar to sniffing a lavender plant straight up , in an odd way.

I would be happy to oblige to your situation, but I'm just not ready, yet. EOs do end up adding up, eh?

Good luck!

Thanks for telling me - that does sound really odd together! :shock: Glad you were able to test it out and that I didn't invest! :shifty: I would love to make a fragranced soap or two but she wants things that would, if made with EOs, be soaps fit for a sheikh, the way I see it. I mean vanilla absolute, rose... :lolno: I've also heard coffee soaps can be a challenge even for experienced soapers. If I have trouble affording two "mid-range" EOs in bulk it doesn't seem fair to her to settle for stuff she's only meh excited about and it's not fair to me either, when I have to be able to make rent. Ah well, hopefully someone can meet her needs in the fragrance department! I think she'll understand.

By the way, shipping be crazy! Over $50 for ground from Jedward's!

 

[Ruthie]

I think often non-soapers may know what they want, but have no idea what they are asking for as far as what goes into getting all the supplies together to make the soaps. I can't be much help as far as meeting her need. (I do have a lavender eo/fo blend but no vanilla and no tea tree.) Mainly wanted to add a bit of empathy. People are always asking me if I have this or that. Usually I don't.