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Todd Ziegler

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Here is the recipe for the homemade VCS which we are affectionately calling "Zigali's color stabilizer or ZCS for short" the acrynim will help distinguish between the homemade and those you buy through a retailer.

The recipe of 3 oz metabisulfate and 3 oz thiosulfate in 10 oz water translates to these percentages by weight --

18.8 % metabisulfate
18.8% thiosulfate
62.4% distilled water

To make approximately 8 fluid ounces of this formulation --

1.5 oz meta
1.5 oz thio
5.0 oz water

Translating to grams, this 8 fluid oz mixture would contain --

42.5 grams meta
42.5 grams thio
141.4 grams water

If you're going to use just 1 ingredient, I would suggest that you use the metabisulfate as the sole ingredient. Here's the formula for it.

23.1% metabisulfate
76.9% distilled water

I have provided the best picture of the test results that I have right now. The FO used in this batch was 9% vanillin. If there are no changes, I will post another picture in 30 days. If for any reason there is a change before then, I will post it right away.
 

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Todd Ziegler

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So A) write your recipe down, stick it in an envelope and mail it to yourself and never open it. This is your poor mans patent.

B) go get a patent
Thank you for your encouragement but I have dealt with patents before and I can guarantee, that they way I developed this formula would be to close to one that is already patented and, would probably be argued as patent infringement by whoever currently owns the patent that I borrowed from, if I applied for patent or tried to sell this commercially.

Besides I get a great reward by simply knowing that people can now afford to use our ZCS and I do mean pluraly because I am not the only person involved in this project.
 

rdc1978

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Here is the recipe for the homemade VCS which we are affectionately calling "Zigali's color stabilizer or ZCS for short" the acrynim will help distinguish between the homemade and those you buy through a retailer.

The recipe of 3 oz metabisulfate and 3 oz thiosulfate in 10 oz water translates to these percentages by weight --

18.8 % metabisulfate
18.8% thiosulfate
62.4% distilled water

To make approximately 8 fluid ounces of this formulation --

1.5 oz meta
1.5 oz thio
5.0 oz water

Translating to grams, this 8 fluid oz mixture would contain --

42.5 grams meta
42.5 grams thio
141.4 grams water

If you're going to use just 1 ingredient, I would suggest that you use the metabisulfate as the sole ingredient. Here's the formula for it.

23.1% metabisulfate
76.9% distilled water

I have provided the best picture of the test results that I have right now. The FO used in this batch was 9% vanillin. If there are no changes, I will post another picture in 30 days. If for any reason there is a change before then, I will post it right away.
Allo! I just ordered the metabisulfate from amazon and I'm excited to try this. If you wouldn't mind, if I'm going to do this, I would just heat the distilled water up to 100 degrees and then stir in the metaisulfate and then let it cool down and add it at a 1:1 ratio to my discoloring f/o? I just want to be very clear. Also, it is any worse than lye fumes? I normally just wear a mask and mix next to an open window, should I be fully outside and suited up for this? And does it dissolve pretty quickly? It looks like it does, can I store the remainder in a plastic bottle or will it need to be glass? Thanks, I'm so excited!
 

Todd Ziegler

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Allo! I just ordered the metabisulfate from amazon and I'm excited to try this. If you wouldn't mind, if I'm going to do this, I would just heat the distilled water up to 100 degrees and then stir in the metaisulfate and then let it cool down and add it at a 1:1 ratio to my discoloring f/o? I just want to be very clear. Also, it is any worse than lye fumes? I normally just wear a mask and mix next to an open window, should I be fully outside and suited up for this? And does it dissolve pretty quickly? It looks like it does, can I store the remainder in a plastic bottle or will it need to be glass? Thanks, I'm so excited!
It dissolves very easy in warm water and then you can use it at a maximum of 1:1. Depending on how dark the FO will get you can use less.

The fumes are pretty strong but they don't come out of the bottle like lye fumes do. You have to put your nose close to the bottle to smell it. The fumes stink but even if you leave the bottle open, it won't fill the room with fumes. You will understand this better when you finally mix it up. If you are sensitive to smells than you should use a mask.

For storage, you can use glass or plastic. I use plastic but the ZCS will evaporate if you don't get it sealed tightly. I use a rubber cork to plug it and then I screw the cap over the cork to hold it in. You can use a natural cork but I don't because it will absorb the product.
 

linne1gi

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It dissolves very easy in warm water and then you can use it at a maximum of 1:1. Depending on how dark the FO will get you can use less.

The fumes are pretty strong but they don't come out of the bottle like lye fumes do. You have to put your nose close to the bottle to smell it. The fumes stink but even if you leave the bottle open, it won't fill the room with fumes. You will understand this better when you finally mix it up. If you are sensitive to smells than you should use a mask.

For storage, you can use glass or plastic. I use plastic but the ZCS will evaporate if you don't get it sealed tightly. I use a rubber cork to plug it and then I screw the cap over the cork to hold it in. You can use a natural cork but I don't because it will absorb the product.
I just made up a small batch and tried it for the first time (the VCS) I just used the sodium metabisulphite and distilled water - I used about 30% of the solution with my fragrance that has 2% vanillin in it and says it discolors to tan. I made this 2 or 3 (can't remember, lol) days ago and so far no color change and the fragrance still smells great as well.
 

SoapDaddy70

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Thanks to @Todd Ziegler and everyone else involved in this. I followed the original thread it was some fascinating stuff. I have only been making soap since end of September and have never used a FO with Vanillin in it but now I guess I can do so and have some fun testing out the new ZCS. Thanks again and happy holidays to everyone here. This forum is filled with such amazingly helpful people and has made the beginning of my soaping journey a pleasure!! 😍😍
 

rdc1978

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It dissolves very easy in warm water and then you can use it at a maximum of 1:1. Depending on how dark the FO will get you can use less.

The fumes are pretty strong but they don't come out of the bottle like lye fumes do. You have to put your nose close to the bottle to smell it. The fumes stink but even if you leave the bottle open, it won't fill the room with fumes. You will understand this better when you finally mix it up. If you are sensitive to smells than you should use a mask.

For storage, you can use glass or plastic. I use plastic but the ZCS will evaporate if you don't get it sealed tightly. I use a rubber cork to plug it and then I screw the cap over the cork to hold it in. You can use a natural cork but I don't because it will absorb the product.
Thank you! My amazon package awaits! Thank you for the feedback, I just didn't want my headstone to read "Here lies the dummy who died of fumes while trying to make vanillain stabilizer" I may try it this weekend so I have time to buy a bottle that will seal up nice and tight! If it works out well, it will be pretty cheap, a pound of the product was only like $9 on amazon.

I just made up a small batch and tried it for the first time (the VCS) I just used the sodium metabisulphite and distilled water - I used about 30% of the solution with my fragrance that has 2% vanillin in it and says it discolors to tan. I made this 2 or 3 (can't remember, lol) days ago and so far no color change and the fragrance still smells great as well.
Oh thank you for that! Now I'm really excited! I'd just been completely avoiding anything with vanilla in it and if I can successfully make this then it opens up a whole world of new fragrance oils I can try.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I just made up a small batch and tried it for the first time (the VCS) I just used the sodium metabisulphite and distilled water - I used about 30% of the solution with my fragrance that has 2% vanillin in it and says it discolors to tan. I made this 2 or 3 (can't remember, lol) days ago and so far no color change and the fragrance still smells great as well.
Thanks to @Todd Ziegler and everyone else involved in this. I followed the original thread it was some fascinating stuff. I have only been making soap since end of September and have never used a FO with Vanillin in it but now I guess I can do so and have some fun testing out the new ZCS. Thanks again and happy holidays to everyone here. This forum is filled with such amazingly helpful people and has made the beginning of my soaping journey a pleasure!! 😍😍
Thank you! My amazon package awaits! Thank you for the feedback, I just didn't want my headstone to read "Here lies the dummy who died of fumes while trying to make vanillain stabilizer" I may try it this weekend so I have time to buy a bottle that will seal up nice and tight! If it works out well, it will be pretty cheap, a pound of the product was only like $9 on amazon.
You're very welcome everyone. Let's know how it works for you and if you have any questions just let me know.
 

Todd Ziegler

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I am going to add a little anecdotal evidence to this experiment.

Several of the companies that sell VCS recommend and or provide a plug for their bottle in order to prevent evaporation. I decided to see what ingredient is the one that evaporates or if it is both of them.

So I used 4 containers, one with the ZCS, one with VCS, one with only water and metabisulfate and one with thiosulfate and water.

What I found out is that any of them with thiosulfate would return to the crystal form as it evaporated.

The metabisulfate did crystallize a little but with a gentle swirl, it mixed back in. The thiosulfate had to be heated back up before it would dissolve again.

Like I said, this is not scientific at all, just some observation from a kind of test.
 

Melysg25

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I've read all the thread posts and would LOVE TO TRY THIS ZCS, BUT idk how to use ZCS in an actual soap formula. How does this work? What percentage do you use per fragrance oil? Do you take into account only the vanilla portion of a fragrance? Ex: this contains 20% vanilla content? So then how much ZCS would I use to prevent discoloration? Also What's unsafe percentage ?
Any others tips/tricks would be so helpful.
 

rdc1978

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So, I just used the metiasulfate and distilled water.

My f/o only had 1.4% vanillian so I used the mixed formula at 30% of my f/o.

So. I mixed my 23.1% metaisulfate and 76.9% water to make 12 ounces of ZCS.

I used 2.5 oz of f/o and mixed 0.75 oz of my zcs into the f/o
 

Todd Ziegler

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I've read all the thread posts and would LOVE TO TRY THIS ZCS, BUT idk how to use ZCS in an actual soap formula. How does this work? What percentage do you use per fragrance oil? Do you take into account only the vanilla portion of a fragrance? Ex: this contains 20% vanilla content? So then how much ZCS would I use to prevent discoloration? Also What's unsafe percentage ?
Any others tips/tricks would be so helpful.
You can do it a few different ways.
1. You can do a 1:1 for example; if your recipe calls for 1oz of FO then you would add 1oz of ZCS

2. If your FO has 10% vanillin and your recipe calls for 1oz of FO then you can add 0.10oz of the ZCS

3. If my FO has vanillin or none at all but only causes it to darken to a tan or lighter color, I will use the #2 way or I might use 0.5:1 amount.

I always check the reviews of the FO if there are any and I will adjust my ZCS accordingly. I usually only use 1:1 for brown to dark brown FO's.
 

Melysg25

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If I were to make 8oz batch to have on hand, is this ZCS, shelf stable? Do I need to add preservatives?
 

Todd Ziegler

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If I were to make 8oz batch to have on hand, is this ZCS, shelf stable? Do I need to add preservatives?
No preservative is necessary but you do need to make sure that the bottle is air tight because as the water evaporates what is left behind will crystallize. I use a rubber cork/stopper and just about any decent hardware store will have a size that will work for you.
 

Melysg25

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Here is the recipe for the homemade VCS which we are affectionately calling "Zigali's color stabilizer or ZCS for short" the acrynim will help distinguish between the homemade and those you buy through a retailer.

The recipe of 3 oz metabisulfate and 3 oz thiosulfate in 10 oz water translates to these percentages by weight --

18.8 % metabisulfate
18.8% thiosulfate
62.4% distilled water

To make approximately 8 fluid ounces of this formulation --

1.5 oz meta
1.5 oz thio
5.0 oz water

Translating to grams, this 8 fluid oz mixture would contain --

42.5 grams meta
42.5 grams thio
141.4 grams water

If you're going to use just 1 ingredient, I would suggest that you use the metabisulfate as the sole ingredient. Here's the formula for it.

23.1% metabisulfate
76.9% distilled water

I have provided the best picture of the test results that I have right now. The FO used in this batch was 9% vanillin. If there are no changes, I will post another picture in 30 days. If for any reason there is a change before then, I will post it right away.

If only 1 ingredient is needed the metabisulfate, why use thiosulfate?
Are there any pros to using both?
 

Todd Ziegler

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If only 1 ingredient is needed the metabisulfate, why use thiosulfate?
Are there any pros to using both?
The thiosulfate is thought to help prevent discoloring from ingredients that are not vanillin and the combination of two do a better job of stopping discoloration.

Some companies sell a separate product for CP soap and MP soap and we believe that the MP product is probably just the thiosulfate.

If you are dealing with vanillin in your FO then metabisulfate will probably be just fine and so far that seems to be the case but if you want a broad coverage of all discoloring ingredients then both will be your best bet.

To formulate a single ingredient ZCS, go to the VCS summary thread.
 

Melysg25

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I really appreciate your response. Thank you for sharing this information. Super helpful. Now if I could ask one more question: is sodium thiosulfate the right thing to buy? I included a pic. I just want to make sure before I order
 

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