Glycerin River..and Advice???

[karenricha]

Hello Expertise Soapers more then I :wave:...lol - ok..I had posted this picture the other day..wondering what was up with my batch of soap. Many looked at this and said it looked like Glycerin Rivers. Now I have used this recipe before - but with black cherry fragrance oil and different colors...it appears beautiful ! ..But this one..although is smells wonderful ..it looks a mess! So many said it probably overheated and that I may have used full water.....so my question for today... (I used lavender EO and Lilac FO )

Next time...how do I reduce the water. Do I go to Soap calc and instead of 38 % i put 35%? Is that what "reduce full water amount means"...?

Or....

Once I finish this soap - I put it in the fridge. I have heard many people place their batch of soap in the fridge overnight. I am not sure the reason behind this....if people do this on a regular basis...or is it for certain circumstances.

As we say...its a learning process....and I'm learning thanks to all you wonderful soaper people out there ...


Advice is well appreciated !
~Karen

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

.....................but still selling soaps to people while you don't really know what you are doing.

My advice - if you do not know how to use a water discount, you simply should not be selling. Shut up the shops and get back to learning how to soap without worrying about making things to sell. Make the basics, change the settings and see what happens. Then play with scents and colours that mean a different water amount would be helpful and see what happens.

 

[Obsidian]

Lowering the water amount to 35% should help. If you are using ingredients that are known to heat up, like sugars or milks, then placing then soap in the fridge will prevent gel. During gel, the soap gets really hot, so preventing it keeps the soap cool.

Reducing water can possibly make your recipe trace faster, I would recommend trying a small batch to see how it behaves.

 

[DeeAnna]

I recommend you start using "lye concentration" in your favorite soap calculator, NOT "water as % of oils". I could trot out the math and reasoning behind this, but suffice to say I strongly advise you to make that switch to get more consistent results from your soaping.

If you increase your lye concentration from "full water" (about 28% lye concentration) to a lye concentration of 30% to 33%, you should see a reduced tendency to gel. You may also see somewhat faster trace (can be good or bad) and harder soap at unmolding (good).

I can't tell you exactly what lye concentration to use -- it depends on your recipe and how you soap. For me, the soap has more tendency to gel at 30% to 31% lye concentration and less tendency to gel at 33%.

Small changes can have big effects, so don't go overboard. A percent or two change is plenty enough to affect the way your soap saponifies.

 

[lsg]

Titanium dioxide can cause crackling or rivers, also.

http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-b.../river-runs-deep-explanation-glycerin-rivers/

 

[ngian]

I recommend you start using "lye concentration" in your favorite soap calculator, NOT "water as % of oils". I could trot out the math and reasoning behind this, but suffice to say I strongly advise you to make that switch to get more consistent results from your soaping.

I guess that someone can also learn the reason behind that by reading this document:

www.rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/dwcp.pdf

except if you have something more than that to say or maybe from a different perspective that I am thirsty for it to read.

I also would like to show once again your great post that explains what glycerin rivers is exactly:

www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=530910&postcount=4

which explains that this phenomenon has nothing to do with glycerin molecules but with the different temperatures that Palmitic /Stearic soaps crystallise in contrast with oleic/Linoleic soaps...

We as a soap community should start to name each phenomenon with a more appropriate name as we also advise others soapers to start using lye concentration instead of water as % of oils.

Nikos

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I guess that someone can also learn the reason behind that by reading this document: www.rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/dwcp.pdf..."

This thread is an alternative that may "click" better with some readers: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53642

 

[karenricha]

Ok...well reply from The Efficacious Gentleman - I never said I was selling soap. I was just making a batch of soap and explained that I was new...Have no idea where your reply came from? Kinda put me at a state of but thanks

- - - and just so you know...I am in the learning process. I read TONS...try to understand the different wording...and ways to make things
better. I thought this forum was used to get help - ask questions - and look for advice. I have books...I use a notebook - I write notes with each batch I make - if it traces quickly...or the consistency of the soap....With comments like that it almost makes me
afraid to ask anything.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Ok...well reply from The Efficacious Gentleman - I never said I was selling soap. I was just making a batch of soap and explained that I was new...Have no idea where your reply came from? Kinda put me at a state of but thanks

- - - and just so you know...I am in the learning process. I read TONS...try to understand the different wording...and ways to make things
better. I thought this forum was used to get help - ask questions - and look for advice. I have books...I use a notebook - I write notes with each batch I make - if it traces quickly...or the consistency of the soap....With comments like that it almost makes me
afraid to ask anything.

You didn't say you're selling soap. On this forum, anyway - it's all over your Facebook page (search 'thoughtfullyscented soap' on Facebook) and until recently it included a post for this particular batch, offering it at $4 a bar BEFORE you even knew what these marks were. You posted it for sale and then came to find out what was going on with the soap.

If you didn't know what was wrong with it, why post it for sale?

As it stands, you have other cold process soaps for sale even though you don't know very much at all about soaping, such as how to use a calc to discount your water.

You say you are in a learning process - then LEARN. Stop selling and LEARN!

To be fair, I would be afraid to ask questions if I didn't know much about soaping but was selling anyway and then trying to pretend that I wasn't.

 

[karenricha]

Oh my goodness....my daughter helps me with my Facebook Page. Yes..I sell soaps. I sell lots of melt and pour soaps. I asked her to post my soaps the other day. - she handles my Facebook Page - I don't like Facebook - She went and posted everything. So yes...I do apologize. I asked her to go and delete all the cold process soaps...except my pet soaps I have made those for awhile now...but I have been so busy this week getting ready for a craft fair...she said she'd help me out. Yikes..!! I feel horrible. geez...I could not understand why you said I was selling those soaps...I am pretty new to Cold Process...and I definitely know its a learning process. If you could see the notebook I have...and the notes I take...so again...I feel really bad. I was so mad..thinking...gosh I'm just trying to learn...but now I understand. I will make sure that I separate my photo file and so she doesn't post everything under "new soap photos"...I feel like an idiot. She says I "need" Facebook...but it seems to cause more problems them good. Thanks so much for making me recognize the problem. I do sincerely want to learn...and now I just feel stupid. My daughter feels bad as well....she said ...mom I was just trying to help.

 

[dixiedragon]

Karen, you are a classy lady to take some tough criticism well. Glad you removed those soaps from your sale page. It was an honest mistake.

We here at SMF have very strong feelings about people selling if they don't know what they are doing, b/c customers can be harmed by improperly made soap (or lotion, etc), or if they have allergies/sensitivities, they can be harmed by properly made but improperly labeled soap, etc.

An example I like to refer to is a lady who wrote into Kathy Miller (great page, www.millersoap.com), who made some castile soap, didn't like, so she shredded it, added glycerin, and used it as LOTION and was offering the recipe. OMG lotion does not equal soap! On a mailing list I was on, a poster talked about how she'd seen a soap for sale that advertised it was scented with "cranberry EO". No such thing. So a person with sensitivities to artificial fragrances might buy that soap, thinking it was safe, and have a bad reaction. Either a) that person was lying (worst case) or b) that person was so ignorant they don't understand the difference between an essential oil and a fragrance oil (best case). Even the best case in this situation is pretty darn bad.

We've had a lot of people come on here and argue about why they've been making soap for 4 weeks and they're totally ready to sell, and by the way, where can they buy cranberry essential oil and how can they make lotion with no preservatives because preservatives are so gross. We had somebody posting articles before the admins shut them down about making soap with soapwort that you could also eat. And the inevitable, "Lye is SO BAD, I make soap with NO LYE." So our reactions can be strong.

 

[shunt2011]

Honest mistake. Accidents happen. As you can see most of us here are pretty passionate about soapmaking. Dixiedragon said it well. I've recently seen several folks stating they've used lilac EO. No such animal that I've ever seen.

Keep learning and making soap.

 

[karenricha]

Oh I totally agree - I have sensitive skin myself...so the last thing I would want to do is cause any kind of a reaction to someones skin. I felt bad...because I was really upset with my daughter - scolded her..but then again I only had one folder with "new soap photos" so partially my fault - but at least now I have 2...one that says...Cold Process photos..and one that says Melt and pour....so it won't happen again. She is so proud...she gives my cupcake soaps away to all her college friends..so I think in her mind...I'm going to help mom. I explained to her about reactions..and consequences of bad soap. I love making soap..and I want to really understand what causes what... I love my dog soap. I've made it...tested it...love it...my dogs skin loves it...and I want everything to be the same. But that takes time which is fine with me. But thanks for the feedback. All help and advice welcomed always!

 

[Spice]

I wouldnt mixed EO and an FO together.To me that would be like mixing apples and oranges. Take all the advice and get familiar with soapcalc.

 

[DeeAnna]

There's nothing wrong with blending EOs with FOs. Some fragrance oils even have essential oils as they come from the manufacturer. Sometimes an EO is less expensive than a synthesized fragrance chemical, so they use the EO. Clove, citrus, and lavandin are examples.

 

[shunt2011]

I mix both quite often. It seems to give FO an extra boost and vise versa.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I have a lovely blend of FO and EO for my "Stress Relief" scented soap with eucalyptus EO and herb garden FO since I don't like the mint that's typically used for "Stress releif" blends.

As Dee says, you can mix them with no problem. EOs are made up of aromatic chemical compounds. So are FOs. One just happens to be made in nature, the other in a lab.

 

[LoveOscar]

I've recently seen several folks stating they've used lilac EO. No such animal that I've ever seen.

Some plant extracts just might be (accidentally) considered EO, even if they're probably oil free? :Kitten Love: I've seen iris root extracts in skin care, although it was an oil free product. Could be along the same lines?

 

[Krystalbee]

We had somebody posting articles before the admins shut them down about making soap with soapwort that you could also eat.

Edible soap??? Ugh! When I was naughty as a kid my parents used to "wash" my mouth out with soap I don't know how anyone could find edible soap appealing!

 

[DeeAnna]

Generally people who say they're using, say, a lilac EO don't know any better, are regurgitating what they've been told by the seller, are indulging in wishful thinking, or are trying to pull the wool over others' eyes. It's generally not an issue of people thinking an infusion is an EO although I'm sure that's happened too.