FO’s color my soap..will EO’s do the same?

[Jerry S]

I have been using F.O.’s for all the fragrances in my soaping. I have never used EO’s cuz of the cost, at lease that’s how it shakes out when I compare one against the other. I know that EO’s would be a better more organic fragrance to use.

My dilemma is, when using FO’s I have a problem with the stuff tinting my soap darker than I want it to be. I know that the vanilla or vanillin in the FO causes this. Will the EO’s give me the same problem?? My thought is, if EO's won't tint my soap, I'll use that when I want white soap.

Most of my favorite FO’s darken my soap no matter how much Titanium Dioxide I use. If I use color in my soap it doesn’t affect the outcome too much but if I want white soap or swirls with white in it the FO’s will effect it. The last batch of soap I poured was supposed to be white and it turned out a coffee color even using TD. The fragrance I used was Peak’s French Vanilla amber.….wonderful fragrance… coffee colored soap…
All your thoughts will be appreciated…especially from you pro’s…
Jerry S.

 

[JackiK]

I've read numerous posts on here about vanilla being the culprit for turning soaps tan/brown. I've had issues with citrus EOs leaving a really strong yellow color. Usually, if the fragrance has a color to it, it will make a difference.

 

[rubyslippers]

Jerry, you said most of your favorite FO's darken your soap but you didn't say what those favorite fo's might be. I too have that problem but it's because I tend to gravitate to fragrances that have vanilla in them.

There are many FO's that will not cause any discoloration. If I'm am going for a really white look, I select a FO that I know is "safe". If it is a new fragrance that I've not used before and I'm not sure how it will behave, I often will reserve a portion of the soap before I add the FO. I've had some really nice results by doing that. If the scented soap turns tan or brown, the unscented will remain white & I can still achieve a swirled effect.

Also, your choice of oils could be part of the problem. If you are not opposed to lard, it can really help in giving you a stark white bar.

 

[Jerry S]

Thanks for the comments Ruby. You make some good points when suggesting that I “test” some of my FO’s on a portion of a batch. As you can see from my note below, Peak mentions that almost “all of the oils will have a coloration to them”.
Here is a list of the FO’s that I received from Peak Candle supply..
My favorites are French Vanilla Amber, Amish Harvest, which just happen to contain vanillin. I think I’ll either “test” all the rest as you suggest or find a supplier that can assure me that their FO’s won’t discolor my soap. I don’t think it’s my oils because I tend to use the harder whiter oils and butters such as CO, CB, PKO, PO and Castor. I do use OO though which may tend to give my soap a small amount of yellowish tint, but with the above oils if I use no color or FO’s they turn out really pretty white. I have used lard as well, with a resultant of a nice white bar but I didn’t use FO’s or color.

Here are my FO’s from Peak.
Amish Harvest FO…. Vanillin
Clean Cotton FO
Cranberry Apple Marmalade FO
Plumeria FO
Brown Sugar FO…. Vanillin.
Pomegranate FO
French Vanilla & ambe… Vanillin
Black Canyon FO

They also included this note in an email I received from them, “Almost all of the oils will have a slight coloration to them."

Jerry

 

[PrairieCraft]

Not sure about the others but Black Canyon not only discolors but also seems to heat up the batch. It does strange things. The color ends up a greenish tan. I've tried coloring black with charcoal and the green tint still comes through for me.

 

[rubyslippers]

Jerry, I've used Peak's pomegranite and had very good results with no discoloration so I'm wondering why that would discolor on you. Also used a Clean Cotton (from Elements B&B) with no problems.
I think the cranberry apple marmalade has some vanilla in it (double check the description on the Peak's site)
Not at all familiar with Black Canyon but PrairieCraft gave you some good tips on that one.
As I said, I tend to gravitate to scents that contain vanilla....if it sounds like a good flavor for ice cream or some sweet dessert food item, the name appeals to me When I check the description, you guessed it.....it contains vanilla! I've learned to embrace the color of brown or, as I said in my earlier post; split the batch & only add fragrance to half of it and swirl in or layer the unscented to get a white swirl or white layer with the scented, brown portion.

 

[newbie]

Hey Jerry,

This would be a good resource for you with the Peak fragrances. It's a spreadsheet with comments by soapers here on many of Peak's fo's.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... tswL#gid=0

Quickly though, plumeria won't discolor but does generally cause major acceleration. Pomegranate- no discoloration, don't think it accelerates. Clean Cotton doesn't discolor either.

All the rest discolor and Black Canyon causes the worst discoloration I've ever seen, whether you gel or not. I've tried it both ways, but over time, the soap turns a hideous dark greenish brownish blech. However, it's a much beloved fragrance and many people buy it. I think just coloring it black is your best option. It's ugly otherwise.

 

[newbie]

I forgot to add that if you really love your vanilla scents, you can buy some vanilla color stabilizer, which you mix with the FO for several minutes prior to adding it to your soap. It will help with the color- I don't know if it will keep a bar super white but I believe with that and TD you could get a fairly white or cream-colored bar. However, the stabilizer only works for 6-9 months, then the dark color starts to show up.

 

[Jerry S]

Lol….well it looks like you all have been down the road with these scents a lot more that I have…Yeah, I think the solution here is to only use the scents that contain vanillin when using it with colors, and only in that portion of the batch that will have the color, like in doing swirls.
I’m sorry; I think by naming all these scents I use I gave the impression that they all discolor. As some of you mentioned a lot don’t such as Clean Cotton, Plumeria, Pomegranate. I used the Cranberry Apple Marmalade and Black Canyon in soaps that I colored really dark so I wasn’t aware that they would discolor in a lighter soap…thank you for letting me know that. I’ll only use those in dark colored soap.

Hey newbie…thank you for that link, I didn’t know it existed and Peak never mentioned it on their return email. As you mentioned Plumeria doesn’t discolor but it sure accelerates. I really have to work fast with it but the fragrance is really nice so I use it a lot.
I’ve heard of the vanilla color stabilizer but just haven’t gotten any. Bottom line here is that I think I’ll really be cognizant when using my scents from now on and make a list of those that don’t discolor. I hate making soap with no scent at all, its just boring…lol.
Thanks for that tip Prairie on the Black Canyon...I think that was another one I used but I used it on a really dark colored soap that I gave a way for Christmas presents.

I’m really glad I decided to open this topic on FO’s. You all had some really great tips and I appreciate them all.
Jerry S

 

[carebear]

I forgot to add that if you really love your vanilla scents, you can buy some vanilla color stabilizer, which you mix with the FO for several minutes prior to adding it to your soap. It will help with the color- I don't know if it will keep a bar super white but I believe with that and TD you could get a fairly white or cream-colored bar. However, the stabilizer only works for 6-9 months, then the dark color starts to show up.

Unfortunately the benefit is temporary, and the FO can still discolor the soap - for example, the Pink Sugar FO I use will make the soap an odd bright yellow if you take the browning out of the equation. I've had bad luck with vanilla stabilizer in CP - getting "shards" in the soap, weeping, oozing, etc. But others have had some luck.

 

[Jerry S]

I was a little suspicious of using that stabilizer as well Care.....I'm probably going to just stay with the scents that don't discolor when I want light to white..and use the others with vanillin when I do colors or dark shades...I really like the Fr. Van. Amber though and wifey goes nuts for it...lol...
jer

 

[newbie]

Just for clarification, that link and the spreadsheet was made by one of the soapers here on the forum and then everyone filled in as they used the FO's. I can see her face, but I can't remember her name, so I'm very sorry I can't give the person credit! Peak didn't generate it and I'm sure they have no idea of its existence.

 

[Jerry S]

FO's and EO's

Gotcha newbie...thanks for the correction on my thinking they might have had a finger in generating that ...its a really great spread sheet and now I feel obligated to document what I do with my scents and then add my "2 scents" worth in as well if it would apply...
Jerry