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Coffee Fragrance Query

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AndyRoo

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Hi all,

So, I have my lovely batter which gives me a lovely long working time. Until it meets coffee fragrance, it seems.

I added the fragrance just before light trace and blended for another 15 seconds, maybe. Before I knew it, the batter had seized and I was digging it out of the mixing bowl by hand, cursing the gods and the makers of that fragrance.

Is coffee fragrance oil known for doing this? If so, is there a way to help prevent this? I used strong black coffee to replace the water content, but I wasn't convinced the scent was enough to give a decent fragrance in the finished soap - hence the addition of the oil too.

Any ideas? If coffee fragrance isn't known for acceleration, is there something else it could be?

Help please!
Andy
 

dixiedragon

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Recipe? And a link to the FO?
Are you sure it is soap safe? Is it from a soap-specific supplier. I've stopped buying FOs from vendors focusing on candles, just bc I had too many duds. I buy from vendors who focus on soap and B&B products.
 

shunt2011

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I concur with dixiedragon. It's likely not made for soapmaking. I've used a couple coffee fragrances for CP soap and not had an issue other than not liking the fragrance.
 

AndyRoo

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Recipe? And a link to the FO?
Are you sure it is soap safe? Is it from a soap-specific supplier. I've stopped buying FOs from vendors focusing on candles, just bc I had too many duds. I buy from vendors who focus on soap and B&B products.
See the pic for the recipe I use. The fragrance comes from a soap making supplier: Coffee Fragrance Oil

Maybe I just need to stick to scenting it naturally with actual coffee. :/

I concur with dixiedragon. It's likely not made for soapmaking. I've used a couple coffee fragrances for CP soap and not had an issue other than not liking the fragrance.
It comes from a soap making supplier and is listed as for use in soaps. I think it's quite vanilla heavy, but I've used vanilla fragrance before without any issues. :/

Maybe I just over blended - but it really, really seized up. Like 0 to 60 in a few seconds!
 

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shunt2011

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Is it listed for CP/Hp and not just MP. It may just be a mover.
 

penelopejane

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See the pic for the recipe I use. The fragrance comes from a soap making supplier: Coffee Fragrance Oil

Maybe I just need to stick to scenting it naturally with actual coffee. :/
Natural coffee smell won’t stick. I suggest buying from a different supplier and check reviews.
If you still Have some left you can add it to the oils, knowing it’s going to move and try just hand blending to see if that’s enough to get to trace. Or do only one second of SB at a time then hand blend and see how it goes.

Or you can SB to emulsion, then add the FO knowing it’s going to accelerate, hand blend thoroughly and pour.

I avoid accelerators because life is too short for panic but that is just me.
 

AndyRoo

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Natural coffee smell won’t stick. I suggest buying from a different supplier and check reviews.
If you still Have some left you can add it to the oils, knowing it’s going to move and try just hand blending to see if that’s enough to get to trace. Or do only one second of SB at a time then hand blend and see how it goes.

Or you can SB to emulsion, then add the FO knowing it’s going to accelerate, hand blend thoroughly and pour.

I avoid accelerators because life is too short for panic but that is just me.
Maybe I'll contact the supplier and check with them. Usually they mark soaps as M&P only if they're not compatible.

Perhaps I'll just have to do what you said, try blending it into the oils and only working the batter lightly until a very light trace and see what happens. It didn't just thicken, though - it quite literally went solid and I had to dig it out of the container with my hand! :/

It's a pain in the neck because I was planning on doing a swirl and frosting to make it look like a latte. Good luck making that happen. :(
 

penelopejane

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Maybe I'll contact the supplier and check with them. Usually they mark soaps as M&P only if they're not compatible.

Perhaps I'll just have to do what you said, try blending it into the oils and only working the batter lightly until a very light trace and see what happens. It didn't just thicken, though - it quite literally went solid and I had to dig it out of the container with my hand! :/

It's a pain in the neck because I was planning on doing a swirl and frosting to make it look like a latte. Good luck making that happen. :(
@shunt2011 will probably tell you where she gets her coffee FO.

I’ve never had much luck getting info out of FO suppliers about FOs. Best to read reviews and the FO review chart that we have here on the forum. Honest reviews by people you know.

You did SB last time, though. Next time, to use this FO up, hand blend and wait a bit and see how it goes. Time makes a difference to trace. Maybe try dividing the mix and having one colour without FO just to add interest. Pour this in as an in the pot swirl the minute the main mix heads towards trace.

Then buy a safe FO that doesn’t accelerate.
 

shunt2011

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I would tell you but I can’t remember where I got them. I purchased two and didn’t care for them but it’s been quite some time and I gave them away to a candle maker. As PJ mentioned look for reviews.
 

penelopejane

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I would tell you but I can’t remember where I got them. I purchased two and didn’t care for them but it’s been quite some time and I gave them away to a candle maker. As PJ mentioned look for reviews.
🤣I went to a lot of trouble to perfect a coffee bar with more than 10 attempts and then realised I don’t like brown soap!
 

TheGecko

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Coffee House from Rustic Essentials and Chocolate Espresso from BrambleBerry...two of my favorites. They will discolor. I add a little bit of dry Brown Oxide to the Coffee House...gives it a bit of speckle. I had Hershey’s Cocoa to the Chocolate Espresso to give it a richer Brown. The Chocolate Espresso is a huge seller for me...I can’t keep it in stock.
 

KiwiMoose

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I always read the hints on soap performance on the supplier's website, and if there are none, I read the reviews. If there are no reviews either - I tend not to buy. I don't like taking the risk - especially when I have a thousand other FOs here I already need to use up.
 

AndyRoo

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Coffee House from Rustic Essentials and Chocolate Espresso from BrambleBerry...two of my favorites. They will discolor. I add a little bit of dry Brown Oxide to the Coffee House...gives it a bit of speckle. I had Hershey’s Cocoa to the Chocolate Espresso to give it a richer Brown. The Chocolate Espresso is a huge seller for me...I can’t keep it in stock.
I live in the UK, and I don't think either of those have UK stores. Importing them would cost more than it'd be worth to make them sadly.

@shunt2011 will probably tell you where she gets her coffee FO.

I’ve never had much luck getting info out of FO suppliers about FOs. Best to read reviews and the FO review chart that we have here on the forum. Honest reviews by people you know.
According to the supplier, it can be used up to 100% without issue. The only thing I can think is that it had some kind of weird chemical reaction with one of the batter ingredients. That or I did just over blend. I'm going to try making another batch today and hand blending like you suggest!
 

penelopejane

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Here is a thread about UK suppliers That you might find useful:
 

TheGecko

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I live in the UK, and I don't think either of those have UK stores. Importing them would cost more than it'd be worth to make them sadly.
My apologies, I was tired last night and didn't check your location before posting. I do know that in Australia, can't think of the name off-hand, that there is a supplier that sells rebranded BrambleBerry...you might check with UK suppliers. My only other suggestions is simply to test whatever 'coffee' scents are available in the UK. That's what I do as a matter of course...I buy 'trial' or 1 oz bottles and then make a small batch.
 

AndyRoo

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Here is a thread about UK suppliers That you might find useful:
That's great - thank you. I actually have some of these bookmarked, but I'll check out the others too! :)

I generally buy my stuff from either The Soap Kitchen or The Soapery, both of whom are very good. I'll have to try and find an alternative source for the coffee fragrance and see if that's any better.
 

linne1gi

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Hi all,

So, I have my lovely batter which gives me a lovely long working time. Until it meets coffee fragrance, it seems.

I added the fragrance just before light trace and blended for another 15 seconds, maybe. Before I knew it, the batter had seized and I was digging it out of the mixing bowl by hand, cursing the gods and the makers of that fragrance.

Is coffee fragrance oil known for doing this? If so, is there a way to help prevent this? I used strong black coffee to replace the water content, but I wasn't convinced the scent was enough to give a decent fragrance in the finished soap - hence the addition of the oil too.

Any ideas? If coffee fragrance isn't known for acceleration, is there something else it could be?

Help please!
Andy
Your recipe is quite heavy on solid butters - so I'm not at all surprised your batter thickened up. Plus you have over 17.5 % of Castor Oil which does tend to accelerate trace. If I were you I would change up your recipe, especially if you want to test out new fragrances. I looked at the site you provided on your coffee fragrance oil and they don't tell you how it behaves in CP - which is a pain, but on the plus side, I think it only has 2.6% Vanillin. So I don't think it would darken much.
 

Megan

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Your recipe is quite heavy on solid butters - so I'm not at all surprised your batter thickened up. Plus you have over 17.5 % of Castor Oil which does tend to accelerate trace. If I were you I would change up your recipe, especially if you want to test out new fragrances. I looked at the site you provided on your coffee fragrance oil and they don't tell you how it behaves in CP - which is a pain, but on the plus side, I think it only has 2.6% Vanillin. So I don't think it would darken much.
I was also really suprised that she said her recipe gives her long working time. Also that she could stick blend for 15 seconds in a row after emulsion.

I never stick blend my fragrances, but I tend to need a lot of working time. I also try not to stick blend my color but that doesn't always work out.
 

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