Using just cocoa and shea butter as the hard fats?

[beeblebrox]

Long time since I’ve posted on here, but I have a bit of an issue - my aunt asked if I could make some soap for her and agreed before realising she’s vegetarian (so no lard) and allergic to coconuts (so no coconut oil). I don’t really like using palm oil, and I have both cocoa and shea butter anyway.
I’ve run some percentages through the soapcalc and it seems to have okay properties, but I’m a bit dubious - I might have to just do some experimenting!
Has anyone used these butters in high amounts and had okay results?

 

[IrishLass]

Hmmm...... A no-animal fat, no palm, no coconut oil soap is quite the challenge, but it can be done. I personally would not make a soap with just cocoa butter and shea butter, though. You'll most likely end up with a draggy soap that doesn't lather well and may be prone to cracking.

Have you heard about Genny's shampoo bar recipe? She posted it on the forum some time ago, but anyway, it contains no coconut oil, no animal fats and no palm oil, and it makes for a wonderfully gentle, bubbly soap for the whole body (in spite of it being called a shampoo bar.) I tweaked it a little bit for my own likes, and I was surprised how bubbly it lathers in spite of not containing any of the usual bubbly oils (although I do add 2 tbsp. sugar ppo to mine). Here's my tweak:

40% olive oil
30% avocado oil
10% shea butter
10% castor oil
10% HO safflower oil

Edited to add: it doesn't cure out to a super-duper hard bar, but you can try adjusting it by reducing some of the olive for some cocoa butter (maybe 5% or 10%)


IrishLass

 

[SaltedFig]

I would also add cocoa butter, and make it dual lye with added sugar to boost bubbles.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I think you'll be fine with something like this:
50% Olive
45% Cocoa Butter (harder than shea)
5% Castor

You might think of adding a bit of corn starch or oat flour to bulk it up a bit. You could also add warm honey to your warmed oils before adding the lye solution to boost lather and for honey's skin-loving benefits. Maybe a teaspoon of paprika ppo to give it a peach hue and speckles?

It's so nice of you to make this for your aunt. I'll be curious to hear what you come up with and how it goes.

 

[beeblebrox]

Thanks for all your suggestions, definitely will have to experiment I'll have to substitute the avocado oil in your recipe, IrishLass, because she's allergic to avocados too!
When adding sugar, do you mix it in with the water before adding lye? I've used honey before and mixed it in at the first hint of trace but something tells me that wouldn't work with non-liquid sugar
Thanks again!

 

[shunt2011]

Thanks for all your suggestions, definitely will have to experiment I'll have to substitute the avocado oil in your recipe, IrishLass, because she's allergic to avocados too!
When adding sugar, do you mix it in with the water before adding lye? I've used honey before and mixed it in at the first hint of trace but something tells me that wouldn't work with non-liquid sugar
Thanks again!

Yes, dissolve your sugar in the water before adding the lye. I dissolve my honey in a bit of warm water as well to thin it out a bit.

 

[dixiedragon]

I had good results with 50% shea butter and a 2% superfat. I really like a combo of olive oil, sunflower oil and rice bran for lather.

 

[beeblebrox]

Thank you! Will report back once it's in the mold/out of it depending on whether I remember

 

[bathgeek]

I’ve got a cocoa butter and olive oil soap for sale and it’s quite nice if I do say so myself. I use dual lye and sugar.

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks for all your suggestions, definitely will have to experiment I'll have to substitute the avocado oil in your recipe, IrishLass, because she's allergic to avocados too!
When adding sugar, do you mix it in with the water before adding lye? I've used honey before and mixed it in at the first hint of trace but something tells me that wouldn't work with non-liquid sugar
Thanks again!

I’ve mixed additives in at trace before and found they streak or clump in the soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

I’ve mixed additives in at trace before and found they streak or clump in the soap.

Been there, done that myself. I could kick myself when I paint myself into a corner like this. I HAVE to solve the problem before the batter gets too thick to pour. And of course the soap batter doesn't usually cooperate, and there go any design plans I might have wanted to do.

I've learned it's almost always best to blend stuff into the oils before adding the lye. Then it's not such a big deal if I have to do something to get rid of clumps or whatever. I have as much time as I need to get it figured out.

 

[SaltedFig]

Thanks for all your suggestions, definitely will have to experiment I'll have to substitute the avocado oil in your recipe, IrishLass, because she's allergic to avocados too!
When adding sugar, do you mix it in with the water before adding lye? I've used honey before and mixed it in at the first hint of trace but something tells me that wouldn't work with non-liquid sugar
Thanks again!

Being allergic to avocados as well as coconut, I would not include shea, and only include the cocoa butter if she is doesn't react to "real" chocolate (one with cocoa butter in it).

Making a soap for someone with multiple allergies can be a slow process, you are going to need to work closely with her to find out what will be ok. It might also mean that you will need to make single soaps for her to test, before you start combining them into a working recipe.

This topic on allergies and soaping oils might interest you: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/latex-allergies-and-oils.56783

 

[Primrose]

I've heard of lots of people using babbassu (sp?) in place of coconut to give the bubbles and hardness for people allergic to coconut

I also tried a bastile recently that was I think 25% cocoa butter 5% castor oil and 70% olive oil. It surprised me that its actually quite a nice soap

 

[beeblebrox]

After 36hrs I've cut the bar, and first impressions are it's softish (like it will give if you press hard enough), but it will probably harden during curing? It seems to give an okay lather, not big fluffy bubbles or anything but more like a foaming one. My hands feel kind of chalky, not sure why this is but it passed the zap test so I'm not worried. Could it be because it hasn't cured yet?

Being allergic to avocados as well as coconut, I would not include shea, and only include the cocoa butter if she is doesn't react to "real" chocolate (one with cocoa butter in it).

Thanks for the link! She does have a latex allergy and is allergic to so much (like strawberries, bananas, melon, the list goes on), but she's told me that she's okay with shea and cocoa (and hopefully she is indeed)

 

[dixiedragon]

Totally normal for it to be softish at this stage. It should be like a block of cheddar - firm, gives when pressed, but not sticky (not like cream cheese). Put the bars in a room with some circulation, out of direct sunlight. If you have pets, you can drape the box with a towel to keep hair off the soap.

 

[earlene]

beeblebrox, there is a lot of information available about latex allergies, but whether or not your friend can use shea butter is something that her allergist should advise, not her soapmaker.

You might find this link interesting regarding latex allergies as it relates to shea butter AND cocoa butter, but I could not find actual research to support that statement. And the current listing of types does not include 'type B' so I am not sure where that came from (outdated information?) See ALAA's website for current information about latex allergy. They do have this regarding cross-reactivity between shea and latex, which indicates a probable, if not scientifically supported problem for persons allergic to latex.

 

[beeblebrox]

Thanks dixiedragon!

beeblebrox, there is a lot of information available about latex allergies, but whether or not your friend can use shea butter is something that her allergist should advise, not her soapmaker.

My aunt has told me that she can use shea butter. I'm not about to give her soap with oils that I haven't checked she's okay to use.