Salt bar not hardening?

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Guspuppy

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Recipe:
80% (11.2 oz) CO
15% (2.1 oz) avocado
5% (.7 oz) castor

33% lye concentration, 18% SF

.25oz rose geranium EO
7oz salt (50%)

I had read that rose geranium could seize, so I SB to emulsion then separated out the batter into color cups, then added the EO and then the salt which had also been divided. I was going to do the 'one color at a time' layer thing with the expected acceleration, but didn't get it. So instead I stirred and stirred each cup until they thickened enough to do a wall pour and did that. (too bad my stick blender does not fit into my cups!) I started to CPOP it but it got hot and was threatening to separate (I think) so I took it out and left on the counter and it smoothed back out. But it's been over two hours and it is nowhere near even set up. But it's not separating either. Or does that take awhile? Maybe I didn't actually get to emulsion? I soaped warm, but probably not over 115 at a guess. Any clues? I know salt bars normally are ready to unmold within hours.
 

BattleGnome

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I've never made salt bars but I did make a similar recipe a few days ago.
I used:
80% co
15% olive
5% castor
20% sf
(2oz fragrance)

Mine took 12ish hours in single cavity molds before I had something unmoldable but soft. I think I unmolded 24-36 hours after pouring (somewhere around there) and they were still just barely soft.

My suggestion would be to wait a few more hours just in case. From what I know about salt bars it doesnt sound like you did anything wrong. I tend to soap higher than 115 for everything partly due to patience and partly because I dont have a thermometer to test for exact temps. (I have to take water temps for work and my best estimate is that I tend to soap around 120 at the lowest based on the cup feel)
 

Navaria

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Guspuppy, mine didn't set up like bricks within 2 hours like everyone said the would either. I was so afraid I screwed something up. But they did eventually get good and hard like they were supposed to. I think I ended up giving them the normal overnight to set up and unmolded in the morning. They probably didn't need that long but I told myself to just leave them alone and let them do their thing and not fuss over them lol.
 

Guspuppy

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I've never made salt bars but I did make a similar recipe a few days ago.
I used:
80% co
15% olive
5% castor
20% sf
(2oz fragrance)

Mine took 12ish hours in single cavity molds before I had something unmoldable but soft. I think I unmolded 24-36 hours after pouring (somewhere around there) and they were still just barely soft.
Well that makes me feel better then! I tried to unmold this morning but even though I was able to peel the sides of the (silicone) loaf away, when I attempted to push it out my fingers sank right in. Oops! I'll put it away and let it sit. :)
 

lsg

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It seems to me that with that much coconut oil, your soap should have set up fast. How old is your lye?
 

Arimara

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It seems to me that with that much coconut oil, your soap should have set up fast. How old is your lye?
I was wondering that too but for a different reason. I had bought my almost empty lye from Essential Depot and now I'm trying to use it up. It's acting like wet sugar and while it's still making soap, I'm not convinced to get lye from that company again, especially since I did not store it in a humid area.

When I made my salt bars, I left them in individual molds for more than 12 hours and they were still on the soft side. I've never had this issue with my first lye and I stored it in the same place and my current bottle.
 

Susie

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I just made solseife with new NaOH from ED, and while they did not unmold in just a few hours, they acted fine otherwise.
 

Guspuppy

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It seems to me that with that much coconut oil, your soap should have set up fast. How old is your lye?
Actually it was the first batch with a brand new bottle of lye from the Lye Guy. (my first, previously I had been using drain cleaner 100% lye from the hardware store). I wondered about that too!
 

dibbles

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I've never had a problem with lye from The Lye Guy. But, it could be the culprit. What kind of salt were you using?
 

Guspuppy

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canning salt, from the same box I had used before and the bars had hardened as expected.

I also just realized that I had in total 1.25 tsp mica in 14 oz total oils, because I had discounted 2 oz of oils to make the salt batter fit into my 1-lb mold. I wonder if too much mica could be a problem? I did not color my last batch of salt bars.
 

IrishLass

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I highly doubt that the mica is the problem. To me, it's sounds much more like it could either be a lye issue, or an FO issue...... or possibly a gel issue.

When I make mine, I use 100% CO, 100% coconut milk as my liquid, and 25% salt ppo, I always pour into log molds, and I always encourage and watch vigilantly for full gel (in the oven)........ which can take as little as 30 minutes, or as long as 4 hours, depending on the FO. For example, Provence FO from TSW always slowed things down for me to such an extent that it always took my salt bars 4 hours to gel whenever I used it. None of my other FOs took as long as that one always did.

Anyway, all told, I always unmold and cut as soon as my soap has firmed back up enough from gel to be handled without falling apart....anywhere from 1 to 6 hours, depending on the FO.

Since the soap is staying cohesive for you (not separating), I wouldn't worry too much about it at this point. I would just let it sit for 24 hours to see what happens.



IrishLass :)
 

penelopejane

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I highly doubt that the mica is the problem. To me, it's sounds much more like it could either be a lye issue, or an FO issue...... or possibly a gel issue.

When I make mine, I use 100% CO, 100% coconut milk as my liquid, and 25% salt ppo, I always pour into log molds, and I always encourage and watch vigilantly for full gel (in the oven).
IrishLass :)
Hi Irish Lass I have been trying to search the forum and can't find the answer to my problem. I am trying to work out how much salt to add.

If I have 1000g of oil and I want to use 35% salt.
Does that mean I add 350g of salt?

DH (scientist!!!) says I should say 1000g+350g=1350 x 35% =25.9g of salt.


Thank you.
 
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penelopejane

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I SB to emulsion then separated out the batter into color cups, then added the EO and then the salt which had also been divided. I was going to do the 'one color at a time' layer thing with the expected acceleration, but didn't get it. So instead I stirred and stirred each cup until they thickened enough to do a wall pour and did that. (too bad my stick blender does not fit into my cups!) I started to CPOP it but it got hot and was threatening to separate (I think) so I took it out and left on the counter and it smoothed back out. But it's been over two hours and it is nowhere near even set up. But it's not separating either. Or does that take awhile? Maybe I didn't actually get to emulsion? I soaped warm, but probably not over 115 at a guess. Any clues? I know salt bars normally are ready to unmold within hours.
Guspuppy,
I have just made my first Salt bar. Possibly 35% salt. Mine was uncoloured but was supposed to have a cinnamon line. My recipe had less CO than you did.

I did the same as you and I think the problem is that I didn't take it far enough to trace. I took it to a light trace expecting instant acceleration once I put the salt in. Nothing. I poured 2/3 of it in the log mold and did my cinnamon line (think mica line without the mica) then I waited 5 mins or so and started to pour the rest of the mix in. It was still runny.
I now have cinnamon swirl salt soap :evil::evil::evil:

I CPOP'd for 1/2 an hour put it on the bench now and I cut it at 3 hours. I think I should have left it 1/2hr longer.

Next time I am going to treat it like any other soap and take it to thick trace to do the first pour and ensure I mix the salt in really well. It is early but I think there is more salt at the bottom of the mold than at the top. I think this was because my trace was too thin. If I had a heavier trace that kept the mixed the salt suspended thru the entire mix I would have had to cut at 2 hrs max with my (mostly OO mix).
 
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Susie

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Hi Irish Lass I have been trying to search the forum and can't find the answer to my problem. I am trying to work out how much salt to add.

If I have 1000g of oil and I want to use 35% salt.
Does that mean I add 350g of salt?

DH (scientist!!!) says I should say 1000g+350g=1350 x 35% =25.9g of salt.


Thank you.
Actually you are correct, the way I usually do soap salt math is your original calculation: 1000 g (of oil) x 35% = 350 since you want 35% of the oil weight for salt, not 35% of the total after the salt.
 

penelopejane

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Actually you are correct, the way I usually do soap salt math is your original calculation: 1000 g (of oil) x 35% = 350 since you want 35% of the oil weight for salt, not 35% of the total after the salt.
Thanks, Susie, I am looking forward to seeing how this one goes!
 

IrishLass

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Hi Irish Lass I have been trying to search the forum and can't find the answer to my problem. I am trying to work out how much salt to add.

If I have 1000g of oil and I want to use 35% salt.
Does that mean I add 350g of salt?

DH (scientist!!!) says I should say 1000g+350g=1350 x 35% =25.9g of salt.


Thank you.
I agree with Susie, your way is the correct way.......unless we have all been doing it wrong all this time! LOL If your recipe has 1000g of oil in it, and you want to add salt at a rate of 35% as per the gram weight of your oil, you multiply 1000g by 35%, which equals 350g.


IrishLass :)
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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I think that he is heading toward calculating a salt amount which would be 35% of the total weight, whereas we always look at salt at a percent of the oils. If you use 50% of the oil weight as salt, salt will not be 50% of the total that comes. Example-

1000g oils would be 500g salt. Total is then 1500g and 500g (salt amount) is only 1/3 of that total, not 1/2. So it is semantics, albeit important in that we use salt at an amount based on oils, but then it does not translate in to that same % of the total weight is salt.
 

Susie

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Craig, we know what he is trying to do. However, it is not "the way we do it", LOL. His way is probably fine, but I have gotten so accustomed to thinking PPO that I doubt I could ever think any other way when it comes to soaping.
 
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