Pine Tar Hazards

[Jaccart789]

My next attempt is a pine tar soap.

Is there one brand of pine tar better than another that you would recommend? I read somewhere about being cautious about toxicity or hazards (something along those lines). What exactly do I look for?


Thanks in advance!

 

[Earthen_Step]

This one seems "medical grade". I have not contacted them yet, but all of the others that I have contacted have said not to use it for soap/cosmetics.

look up "Kiln Burn Pine Tar 773" (if you don't like clicking links)

Quote from the link above: "Kiln burn pine tar is a pure, natural product produced by the old fashioned kiln burning of pine tree stumps. This type of tar is characterized by high resin content, low content of pitch and high purity. Kiln Burned Pine Tar is a high performance tar especially for medical purposes but also for veterinary use as well as for wood and wood preservation. You can find Kiln Burned Pine Tar as an ingredient in shampoos, soaps, expectorants and in ointments against allergic rash, psoriasis and eczema, among others."

Applications: "Kiln burned Pine Tar is a high performance tar for wood preservation and for veterinary, but especially pharmaceutical purposes. Pine Tar can be found as an ingredient in shampoos, soaps, expectorants and in ointments against allergic rash, psoriasis and eczema, among others. NB! Do not apply directly on skin."

Our Promise: "Tar made from resin-free deciduous trees does not contain resin or terpenes and consequently it is not suitable for treating wood. This tar often has a high content of pitch, which blocks the pores of the wood and leads to a risk of rot. Auson does not promote or offer tar made from deciduous trees."

 

[Jaccart789]

I truly appreciate you taking the time to answer! I will look into this one!

Thank you!!

 

[godschild]

Thanks for asking this question and thanks Jaccart789 for responding. I've been meaning to ask this same question. I love this forum!

 

[DeeAnna]

There's a lot of controversy about this. Different countries have different standards about what can be and cannot be said regarding medical claims. No US pine tar maker can legally say the same things about its pine tar that the Swedish Auson company is saying about its kiln burn pine tar. Most especially, no US company would dare claim their pine tar is safe for human use, since that would make the pine tar a drug subject to FDA rules and regulations. This would be true even if the pine tar products from Sweden and from the US came out of the exact same barrel. So I take all these clams (or lack thereof) with a huge grain of salt. I happen to like the Auson kiln burn tar, but I have used pine tar sold by US companies with good results too.

 

[Jaccart789]

DeeAnna...

thanks for the insight and the useful information!

 

[Earthen_Step]

There's a lot of controversy about this. Different countries have different standards about what can be and cannot be said regarding medical claims. No US pine tar maker can legally say the same things about its pine tar that the Swedish Auson company is saying about its kiln burn pine tar. Most especially, no US company would dare claim their pine tar is safe for human use, since that would make the pine tar a drug subject to FDA rules and regulations. This would be true even if the pine tar products from Sweden and from the US came out of the exact same barrel. So I take all these clams (or lack thereof) with a huge grain of salt. I happen to like the Auson kiln burn tar, but I have used pine tar sold by US companies with good results too.

While this probably is very true. For me I would rather use a Swedish "medical grade" pine tar than a construction or even horse US grade pine tar. Even if they are the same thing. If I were asked "what pine tar do you use?" I would not feel comfortable showing them a construction product or something for horse hooves. I'm still digging though. I really hope to find a US company that claims cosmetic grade with their pine tar.

For personal use there are many pine tar's I would be comfortable using.

Wiki: "Pine tar has also been used for treating skin conditions, often as soap, though this use as a drug was banned by the FDA along with many other ingredients, due to a lack of proof of effectiveness."

This should not apply to "cosmetic grade", but I cant find details on this yet. It could be that if a company claims "cosmetic" for pine tar that the FDA assumes they must be inferring medical use.

* more details:
I can't find the full text of the bill. But the way it was written could very well include cosmetic grade. This is from P90-52 (page-2) back in 1990.

"Once the ban takes effect in six months, manufacturers wishing to
include any of these ingredients in nonprescription products will have to
provide FDA evidence that the ingredient is safe and effective for its
intended use and obtain the agency's approval."
http://pinch.com/skin/docs/fda/FDA-OTC-ingredients-ban

I cannot find "pine tar" on any FDA cosmetic prohibited ingredient lists though. So use in soap/cosmetics seems fine, but maybe pine tar companies cannot list it as safe for human use? Anyone know the legalities of this all, I'm done looking for now.

 

[dixiedragon]

I use the horse-hoof stuff from feed stores. I have gotten a lot of positive feedback, including somebody who swears it made her son's exema go away.

 

[Earthen_Step]

I've talked to 2 more companies today about pine tar. They say it's not for human usage. They say it's 100% pine tar, but not for use in cosmetics or soap. This is what happens when centralized power takes over. OTC drugs can't use pine tar so it must be harmful? This is why I cant chose to buy raw milk/dairy at my supermarket. This is also why people can't use marijuana for medical reasons. This is why I am ranting right now...

Sorry, I just get upset over these things. But, not so upset that I won't keep digging. :smile:

 

[Jaccart789]

Its all liability, kind of like how physicians will do things "off label" but won't directly say this drug will work for this issue because its meant for something totally different.

thanks for sharing and trying to investigate as well!

I do know that the pine tar we get should say creosate free (or something similar might be misspelled) but I read somewhere there are others don't really believe that it makes a difference.

I appreciate your help!

 

[Sinful7]

I agree with Deanna NO company in the US would dare say their pine tar can be used in any "medical" or "cosmetic" usage, it opens them up to far too many regulations. For the same reasons most of us wouldn't actually place certain wording on labels. I've seen what pine tar soaps can do, but I wouldn't label my soap as "for acne" check you ingredients, keep them as pure as possible. Research everything. I have used the "horse pine tar" lol for a long time. I have no problem telling and showing customers what brand I use. I sell out every time I make it.. Have not had one person balk at buying due to the brand of pine tar.

 

[Earthen_Step]

I agree with Deanna NO company in the US would dare say their pine tar can be used in any "medical" or "cosmetic" usage, it opens them up to far too many regulations. For the same reasons most of us wouldn't actually place certain wording on labels. I've seen what pine tar soaps can do, but I wouldn't label my soap as "for acne" check you ingredients, keep them as pure as possible.

Companies should not be scared to state something honest about their product because of federal regulations IMO. I realize they pretty much have to be, because of what can be done to them. We should be able to say things like "Has been known to help cure acne". A disclaimer saying "these statements are not FDA approved" or something should suffice. It would be awesome if we could share what these products can do for people. It would also be great to buy "for human use" pine tar in the USA. I'll keep dreaming.

I have used the "horse pine tar" lol for a long time. I have no problem telling and showing customers what brand I use. I sell out every time I make it.. Have not had one person balk at buying due to the brand of pine tar.

That's great your pine tar soap does so well. Thanks for sharing that people don't mind the brand of pine tar you use as well, good stuff.

 

[Sinful7]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we actually could share what our products help with, without the government being involved? I know some regulations are needed, but anymore its excessive

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I am sorry, I know we cross swords on regulation often, but I have to say I think in many cases it is a good thing -

While I do think the evidence is there for PT soaps (I love mine, myself!) I would hate to see people be given a free-reign to include 1 tsp of extract of (insert healing herb here) and claim that it will clear up a condition.

While as soapers it really annoys us (myself included!) that genuine claims are not allowed without some hoop-jumping, as a consumer I think we would be equally annoyed if we bought a product claiming to do something when it does nothing of the sort. We can talk about the market pruning out these snake-oil claims after some time, but that doesn't help the people that bought it in the meantime.

Back on the subject of PT, I will not be able to use it in any soap I sell because of the EU regs. A great shame indeed, but I can understand why.

 

[Earthen_Step]

I am sorry, I know we cross swords on regulation often, but I have to say I think in many cases it is a good thing -

While I do think the evidence is there for PT soaps (I love mine, myself!) I would hate to see people be given a free-reign to include 1 tsp of extract of (insert healing herb here) and claim that it will clear up a condition.

While as soapers it really annoys us (myself included!) that genuine claims are not allowed without some hoop-jumping, as a consumer I think we would be equally annoyed if we bought a product claiming to do something when it does nothing of the sort. We can talk about the market pruning out these snake-oil claims after some time, but that doesn't help the people that bought it in the meantime.

Back on the subject of PT, I will not be able to use it in any soap I sell because of the EU regs. A great shame indeed, but I can understand why.

Oh don't be sorry, I enjoy the topic. My mind goes to this subject often because it's everywhere. I'm glad you speak up, I'm sure many disagree with me on this and like to see your words.

I don't think it's necessary to have these sorts of laws. It's sold to us as consumer protection but the costs aren't worth it IMO. We are limited in what we can say, use, and sell under the guise of safety. If you want an FDA stamp of approval then it should be a voluntary thing. Let people jump through the hoops to become FDA certified and show it proudly. Maybe if they provided an amazing service people would pay to wear that voluntary stamp and they wouldn't be a $4.3 billion dollar money sink.

*Edit:
You are exactly on topic with your statements. If pine tar was not a banned medical product we would have "medical grade" pine tar at top notch qualities.

While I do think the evidence is there for PT soaps (I love mine, myself!) I would hate to see people be given a free-reign to include 1 tsp of extract of (insert healing herb here) and claim that it will clear up a condition.

This is already done all over in soaps and cosmetics. People include 1% Shea butter and say "HAS SHEA BUTTER!" and that sort of thing. I don't think that is that big of a deal. Good products will sell, terrible ones will not. Things that cure will cure whether or not it's government approved. Things that are banned will move to the black market, maybe not so much with "pine tar soaps" but it could if the demand were high enough.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

.............. Things that are banned will move to the black market, maybe not so much with "pine tar soaps" but it could if the demand were high enough.

When I do come to sell, I can see myself telling people to come back just before closing time if they ever ask for PT, selling it out of the back of a van and looking out for the EU cosmetic police. :smile: