People scare me!!

[Jaccart789]

I actually thought about selling bars for $1.00 or 2.00, OBVIOUSLY this isn't for profit. I don't care about making money as I don't have a need. I can assure you I use the best of everything, including oils like argan, olive, avocado etc...I was going to do this on Etsy. I figure I could unload my surplus of bars, get some true feedback, and make money to go back into soaping.
I give quite a bit of it away, but I still have a lot. I soap almost daily for fun. I figure it wouldn't hurt to make my money back to aid with my soap addiction. However, I have never thought about hurting the soaper who does this for a living or trying to have a business. Your responses has me thinking...

 

[goji_fries]

Personally, I have only been selling for a short while. Before that, I did it strictly for fun and making money from it was never the intention. I just liked giving my soap to friends and family and getting feedback so I could tweak them and make them better. People kept asking me if they could buy extras beyond what I was giving them for free for them to give to others they thought would enjoy them. So, I started selling them in order to further fund my soaping addiction. Then, as a natural course I started selling at small events, to co-workers, etc. Then I was approached by the owner of a couple salons who was given some of my soap by a friend. She wanted to buy wholesale and have me do private labeling for her. So I got all my licenses and a business was born. Very small business. I'm the only full-time employee, lol! Not trying to expand quickly or beyond my means. I'm happy to keep the business small and let it grow as it will. I have a good day job so no hurry there. I really just love making soap and sharing it with others...and I really dig it that I've had such a positive response from those who have used my products. Keeping people clean and happy...that's what it's all about

:shock:.. feed the sickness

 

[scotsman]

Perhaps there needs to be a support group, lol!

 

[Cindy2428]

There is... here!:clap:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I actually thought about selling bars for $1.00 or 2.00, OBVIOUSLY this isn't for profit. I don't care about making money as I don't have a need. I can assure you I use the best of everything, including oils like argan, olive, avocado etc...I was going to do this on Etsy. I figure I could unload my surplus of bars, get some true feedback, and make money to go back into soaping.
I give quite a bit of it away, but I still have a lot. I soap almost daily for fun. I figure it wouldn't hurt to make my money back to aid with my soap addiction. However, I have never thought about hurting the soaper who does this for a living or trying to have a business. Your responses has me thinking...

I think this is a very big mistake. For one thing it adversely impacts the market in general. For another, you are setting yourself up as someone who sells soap at 1 or 2 dollars. When you then come to charge more, people will want to know what the changes are. Telling them that previously you didn't want to make money will not be an answer that they want to hear.

The people that I give soap to at the moment will continue to get free soaps when I come to sell. I would never sell to the public at anything less than what I would charge if I was running a full time business.

 

[Jaccart789]

I think this is a very big mistake. For one thing it adversely impacts the market in general. For another, you are setting yourself up as someone who sells soap at 1 or 2 dollars. When you then come to charge more, people will want to know what the changes are. Telling them that previously you didn't want to make money will not be an answer that they want to hear.

The people that I give soap to at the moment will continue to get free soaps when I come to sell. I would never sell to the public at anything less than what I would charge if I was running a full time business.

That's the thing E.Gent... I don't think I will ever sell. This thought was to help fund my addiction, selling the bar at cost that is. However, I don't think this is something I will do honestly, I bounced the idea around for awhile. I can totally understand the issue with it and I never thought how it would impact the market or other soapers. However, this discussion has me rethinking for sure.

 

[katsntx]

I actually thought about selling bars for $1.00 or 2.00, OBVIOUSLY this isn't for profit. I don't care about making money as I don't have a need. I can assure you I use the best of everything, including oils like argan, olive, avocado etc...I was going to do this on Etsy. I figure I could unload my surplus of bars, get some true feedback, and make money to go back into soaping.
I give quite a bit of it away, but I still have a lot. I soap almost daily for fun. I figure it wouldn't hurt to make my money back to aid with my soap addiction. However, I have never thought about hurting the soaper who does this for a living or trying to have a business. Your responses has me thinking...

That's the thing E.Gent... I don't think I will ever sell.

Jencat, whether you sell for $1 or $7, if you charge money, you are selling.

This thread reminds me so much of my experience in the professional photography industry. I see it happening all over again. I've been a professional photographer for 32 years and I have seen this industry change sooo much. Especially in the past 6 or 7 years. With the popularity of Youtube, a person can learn anything they want. And with digital equipment, it's easy to see if you mess up a shot and you can redo it right away. Photographers are not really photographers these days, they are photoshop experts. Of course I speak in generalities. There are some fantastic photographers out there. My point is, a decade ago, I could make a decent living with my business. People appreciated my skills and creative eye and were willing to pay me a fair price for it. Then the market began to get saturated with 'weekend warriers' who started doing family portraits in the park and giving a client the entire CD of images for $50. :Kitten Love:


No, the images were not as good as what they would have gotten from me, but the general population doesn't realize that. They see $50 vs $350 and guess where they are going? They can charge $50 because they have no insurance, no overhead and don't pay taxes!

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread and turn it into a photography thread. But I see the parallel and it worries me.

I have been selling for a few years. But I don't advertise, and I don't really market. I am in several business networking groups for my photography business and they all know I make soap. I take several bars to each of 2 weekly meetings, show them off, and sell every bar I have with me. So my clients are also business people. They understand what it takes to stay in business and some have even told me to raise my prices! (I charge $7 on average). Everyone tells me I should sell on a bigger scale, and I am considering things. I have a web designer working on a website for me and I have a couple of boutique owners in my networking groups who love my soaps and are willing to carry them in their shops. But I can't stop thinking about my photography experiences and so I don't rush into it.

LOL... it's actually odd... the more I hold back, the more they want them!

 

[Jaccart789]

I should have said "selling for profit". Lets be honest... the best soaps with all the ingredients at most don't cost more than 2.00 to make, so in my case I would not be selling subpar soaps. Its just soap at cost. I can promise I can hang with the best of you as I soap almost daily. Those who are selling to under cut people probably won't last long at it, because like a previous soaper said they have to think about all the other things that go into a business. I have no worries as far as that goes. As I said it was fleeting thought not something I take seriously. I have a career that is taking me into the beauty industry ( training to be a nurse practitioner focusing in aesthetics) and hopefully soaping will help me develop a line of skin care one day. Its the real goal and dream. As for now soaping is a passion and a love=not a business. I haven't thought about the cost of others who really want to make a profit and wanting a business but again it has me rethinking. I have a husband who can't understand why I have piles of soap that sits in my pantry and closets; he is willing to fund a retail store, but nope not my goal as of now. It was just a fleeting thought and everyones feelings has helped me realize how it could hurt the industry.

 

[katsntx]

Please don't ever stop making soap, Jencat!! I look forward to seeing your soap babies!

 

[Jaccart789]

Katsntx...

I understand about the photography issues and other businesses a like, but if you are the very best people are willing to pay more. I was just married in Italy and I flew a videographer from Canada and my photographer from Naples to Tuscany, since you brought up photography. I wanted the very best and was willing to pay for it. The market decides who will last and who doesn't. Sounds to me if you have been been a photographer for 32 years then you are doing something right!!! I would definitely consider you before I would a newbie. Ok I digressed enough...

Have a happy Sunday all. I have so much homework to do and need to get off this forum!

 

[Earthen_Step]

As far as the whole labeling thing goes, at least in the US, the only legal requirements for true soap are that yes, you must have a label and that label must at least contain 3 things:
1)It must identify the product as soap. You must actually use the word "soap". Bath bar, beauty bar, etc will not suffice.
2)It must list the weight of the product. My understanding is that they require the net weight, or the weight of the product itself, not including the weight of the packaging. I may be mistaken on this one but that's the way I understood the semantics of the law and the way I've always done it. If I am incorrect please correct me.
3)It must list a physical address for your business that serves as a point of contact for the consumer. I do not know if a P.O. Box is permitted or not, as I've never had one. I'm sure one of the veterans on here would know the answer to that one.
So in a nutshell, the person selling unlabeled bars is in violation of the law whether they know it or not. Is it likely the authorities will show up at the local farmers market to bust them? Probably not. That being said, if they do somehow make it onto the radar, by way of customer complaint or otherwise, the penalties are quite stiff. Not worth it, in my opinion...especially when it is relatively easy to stay within the constraints of the law. I won't take risks like that with my business because it's not worth the damage to my reputation as a businessman and the potential financial damages to myself and my family. I do this because I enjoy creating and sharing something that makes people around me happy. The fact that I make a modest profit from it is just gravy. I'd be just as happy doing it for free if I had that kind of disposable income.

Soap does not require any labeling. If you do any labeling, then you are subject to label laws. At this time PO boxes are not permitted, but that could change.

taken from: http://www.mariegale.com/
"The Handcrafted Soap and Cosmetic Guild has sent in Citizen Petition asking that the regulations be changed to allow a US Postal Service PO Box in the name of the business be acceptable in lieu of an actual street address. Changes in the way people get information (using the internet, not print directories) and safety and security for those with home-based businesses were cited as the reasons for requesting the change. So far the FDA has not made a decision on it."

*Your labeling information is correct. But you can sell just naked unwrapped soap legally.
**This is following along with your comment of being in the USA -- I have no idea of soap/cosmetic laws in other countries.

 

[Earthen_Step]

I should have said "selling for profit". Lets be honest... the best soaps with all the ingredients at most don't cost more than 2.00 to make, so in my case I would not be selling subpar soaps. Its just soap at cost. I can promise I can hang with the best of you as I soap almost daily. Those who are selling to under cut people probably won't last long at it, because like a previous soaper said they have to think about all the other things that go into a business. I have no worries as far as that goes. As I said it was fleeting thought not something I take seriously. I have a career that is taking me into the beauty industry ( training to be a nurse practitioner focusing in aesthetics) and hopefully soaping will help me develop a line of skin care one day. Its the real goal and dream. As for now soaping is a passion and a love=not a business. I haven't thought about the cost of others who really want to make a profit and wanting a business but again it has me rethinking. I have a husband who can't understand why I have piles of soap that sits in my pantry and closets; he is willing to fund a retail store, but nope not my goal as of now. It was just a fleeting thought and everyones feelings has helped me realize how it could hurt the industry.

My soaps cost more than $2.00 to make. I have some dream soaps in the back of my mind that will cost silly amounts of money. But that's not the point of me commenting on your post.

I just thought of something that might be even better than just selling your soap for cost! I don't know if you agree with me on this or not. What about trying to get fair market value for your product and put 100% profit towards a charity that you love! That way you don't hurt companies trying to make a living selling soap and you could help the world in some way.

 

[Jaccart789]

My soaps cost more than $2.00 to make. I have some dream soaps in the back of my mind that will cost silly amounts of money. But that's not the point of me commenting on your post.

I just thought of something that might be even better than just selling your soap for cost! I don't know if you agree with me on this or not. What about trying to get fair market value for your product and put 100% profit towards a charity that you love! That way you don't hurt companies trying to make a living selling soap and you could help the world in some way.

Your soaps cost 2.00 more a bar? What are you using gold? LOL No really... I am curious. I have soaped with everything almost.

This was just a thought nothing Im serious about under taking. However, your idea is a great one.

 

[Earthen_Step]

Your soaps cost 2.00 more a bar? What are you using gold? LOL No really... I am curious. I have soaped with everything almost.

This was just a thought nothing Im serious about under taking. However, your idea is a great one.

Virgin/Unrefined certified organics add up. So do a lot of the essential oils, clays, dead sea mud.

 

[Jaccart789]

I have to be honest. I don't soap with organic items because I don't necessary believe in the hype but I guess there are EOs that can make them more expensive, but if I did then I would certainly mark them up. These are soaps at cost. There is a soaper in town who uses corn oil, soybean and lard with very small amounts of olive that is selling soap for 9.00 per bar. She has a very well know and established retail store that is about to franchise. However, this person wouldn't be in competition with you as you have your niche, or my soaps for that matter. Capitalism is what makes the world go round!

I don't know whats happened. Im not selling anyone...it was a "fleeting thought"!!!

 

[Earthen_Step]

I have to be honest. I don't soap with organic items because I don't necessary believe in the hype but I guess there are EOs that can make them more expensive, but if I did then I would certainly mark them up. These are soaps at cost. There is a soaper in town who uses corn oil, soybean and lard with very small amounts of olive that is selling soap for 9.00 per bar. She has a very well know and established retail store that is about to franchise. However, this person wouldn't be in competition with you as you have your niche, or my soaps for that matter. Capitalism is what makes the world go round!

I don't know whats happened. Im not selling anyone...it was a "fleeting thought"!!!

I started off with conventionally grown everything and noticed a substantial difference when I switched. It made a believer out of me. It's a costly choice and I understand multiple reasons why people wouldn't pick certified organic.

I still think it's a good idea to do something with your soap. Selling it and using the profits towards charity seems top notch to me. Better than having hundreds of bars sitting around your house. You might even be able to set up a non-profit org of your own and push the idea pretty far. But, that would require a lot of time and efforts I'm sure.

 

[Lindy]

If it is just soap she doesn't need to have ingredients, I'm not even sure she needs the weight on their although I imagine she should somehow. People's labeling does not bother me anymore. There are many old soapers who label incorrectly - not because they are trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes but because it is a very confusing aspect of selling. Now we know we don't need to label with INCI and that the correct way to label is by common name. However for years it was fully believed to be incorrect to use common names - books even stated to use INCI !!

Labels? Nope does not bother me unless it is something like making claims, but regular mistakes..... we all make them.

In Canada you must label your soaps and you must label using INCI as well as Bi-Lingual for the rest of the label including warnings. We are however allowed to make cosmetic claims, just no medical or anti-anything.

I should have said "selling for profit". Lets be honest... the best soaps with all the ingredients at most don't cost more than 2.00 to make, so in my case I would not be selling subpar soaps. Its just soap at cost. I can promise I can hang with the best of you as I soap almost daily. Those who are selling to under cut people probably won't last long at it, because like a previous soaper said they have to think about all the other things that go into a business. I have no worries as far as that goes. As I said it was fleeting thought not something I take seriously. I have a career that is taking me into the beauty industry ( training to be a nurse practitioner focusing in aesthetics) and hopefully soaping will help me develop a line of skin care one day. Its the real goal and dream. As for now soaping is a passion and a love=not a business. I haven't thought about the cost of others who really want to make a profit and wanting a business but again it has me rethinking. I have a husband who can't understand why I have piles of soap that sits in my pantry and closets; he is willing to fund a retail store, but nope not my goal as of now. It was just a fleeting thought and everyones feelings has helped me realize how it could hurt the industry.

I'm glad you have taken the time to see how you would hurt the industry at those prices. There is just so much to learn even if you are never planning on going pro, but rather continuing to be a hobbyist who is considering selling some to feed the addiction :grin:

Soap does not require any labeling. If you do any labeling, then you are subject to label laws. At this time PO boxes are not permitted, but that could change.

taken from: http://www.mariegale.com/
"The Handcrafted Soap and Cosmetic Guild has sent in Citizen Petition asking that the regulations be changed to allow a US Postal Service PO Box in the name of the business be acceptable in lieu of an actual street address. Changes in the way people get information (using the internet, not print directories) and safety and security for those with home-based businesses were cited as the reasons for requesting the change. So far the FDA has not made a decision on it."


*Your labeling information is correct. But you can sell just naked unwrapped soap legally.

In Canada you can sell naked soap but you must supply a label that would be either included in the bag that you put it in, the paper that you wrap the bar in after sale or a sticker that you would place on either. Also we are allowed to use PO Boxes here for our contact addresses which is wonderful to help people who prefer to not use their home address, like me

The thing to remember is that not every country has the same regs. Ours are stiffer than the USA and the EU is even stricter than ours. It is really important to make sure you are checking your country's regulations.

 

[goji_fries]

Virgin/Unrefined certified organics add up. So do a lot of the essential oils, clays, dead sea mud.

Even ordering from a wholesaler, the prices of EOs add up fast. You also have to experiment with EOs to find different formulations = $$$$$$$$$. Clays, muds, and other material definitely adds up. I feel your pain :sick:

 

[AKjulz]

And don't forget the cost of all your TIME! Definitely must remember to count that when talking about our wholesale soap costs for those that sell. ( I'm sure that's not what this thread was originally about, sorry)