My first shaving soap is a success!
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LBussy
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Fantastic info! Thanks for the chemistry behind it, and Dave that's an excellent question. If anyone has access to PubMED (I did, I need to see why it's not working) here's an article that may help:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16881709
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16881709
rogue
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I can't get beyond the abstract but I'm reading that as they are saying as they see iodine values dropping from either hydrog. Or esterification (or both) melt temps rise. Which is expected. Saturated fats such as bovine butter tend to be solid at higher temp than un saturated ones, i.e. Fixed oils corn, peanut, soy.
Sometimes I think that I'm overthinking all this stuff. Just want to make pretty glittery cookie scented soap for my inner 10 year old.
Thanks for sharing, very interesting.
If you can post pics I think that might also be interesting, but if not...no worries.
Regards-
Dave
Lee:
Have you made any shave soap with "the real deal SA" yet? I'm wondering how it compares to the stuff made with the SA+palmitic that we appear to have been using?
Regards-
Dave
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Dorymae
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I want to know if the 100% stearic yields instant seize like I imagine it would. I'm thinking there is a reason it is cut with palmitic.
What difference do you think it would make between "50% stearic" (what we appear to be normally using) and "pure stearic" ...?
-Dave
Dorymae
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Ever heard of soap on a stick? Well I imagine that 100 percent stearic would totally solidify making it impossible to work with. I don't know - but it is what I imagine.
TRBeck
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The thing about 100% stearic is that it is about 170 degrees when it melts, so the heat keeps everything pretty fluid when stick blending, especially if your lye solution is pretty hot, too. Watch the volcano, though. I bought a bunch of real-deal stearic and detect minimal difference if any from the other shave soaps I have made. Palmitic and stearic do similar things for shave soap, anyway, and if you soap with pure palmitic, it is not hugely different to the stearic or the palmitic/stearic blend. Work hot, full water, watch for a volcano, and be ready for almost immediate saponification.
LBussy
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Sorry, I missed the question originally. Yes, it turns out what I have been using is tech grade stearic acid. They guy I bought it from found the bag and sent me a pic with the "proper" CAS number. When I purchased it originally it was for fireworks (it is a relatively low-temp fuel perfect for blue stars) so I wasn't looking at it with the critical eye of a guy trying to make soap.
It's not cut with palmitic so much as the manufacturing process to create that product is much easier/cheaper than that which creates "pure" stearic acid. The original product has both in it so they just remove most of what is not palmitic or stearic.
I intend to video at least parts of my process for an instructional I am going to put together. So, you can see what happens up close and personal.
To a HP soaper using SA is probably not any more "lively" than anything else. To a CP soaper it might be described as soap on a stick. I think it's all about your point of view. I don't believe anyone that ever tells me they do true room temp CP with SA but I'm from (in) Missouri.
"...I don't believe anyone that ever tells me they do true room temp CP with SA but I'm from (in) Missouri...."
Although I'm a born and bred Iowan, I lived in Missourah for 12 years. A bit of the "Show Me" philosophy must have rubbed off on me -- I don't believe this either.
Although I'm a born and bred Iowan, I lived in Missourah for 12 years. A bit of the "Show Me" philosophy must have rubbed off on me -- I don't believe this either.
BrambleNBumble
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Question
My husband has a coworker that wants me to make up a shaving soap and I have tossed around the idea for a while but never knew anyone who would use it. My question is a simple one, does this soap turn hard like a CP soap or does it stay soft? He also asked about a shaving cream but I haven't seen a way to make some yet.
My husband has a coworker that wants me to make up a shaving soap and I have tossed around the idea for a while but never knew anyone who would use it. My question is a simple one, does this soap turn hard like a CP soap or does it stay soft? He also asked about a shaving cream but I haven't seen a way to make some yet.
The recipe as written stays relatively pliable. It's not hard but not super soft either. You do have the ability to tweak it. I would recommend reading the entire thread (for the most part) as many have tried different tweaks and have reported back on them. It's a pretty good read.
To make shaving cream you would want to probably start with cream soap but I don't know much from there on that one
Jackofhearts
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I just realized that the last batch I made of shave soap I forgot to add glycerin! Think I should rebatch it and let the FO just disappear? or should I start again?
I've never rebatched but it sounds like a nightmare. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jack
I've never rebatched but it sounds like a nightmare. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jack
Bramble -- the soap has a waxy Playdough consistency. You can use the recipe to make a shaving cream (croap?) using the method for making "cream soap" (see Lindy's recent tutorial on making cream soap), but I'd try the original version first. The cream soap texture has some issues, IMO. I like the original version well enough. It's firm enough after curing to keep its shape as a bar so you can use in the shower, but it's soft enough a person can press it into a mug if that's how they use shave soap.
Jack -- Just try it the way it is and see what you think. If you decide you want to add the glycerin, just knead it into the soap a bit at a time, just like you would knead bread dough. The soap will be difficult to knead at first, but it will soften up as you work with it, especially if it's not fully dried/cured. That's how I have added fragrance to this type of shave soap.
Jack -- Just try it the way it is and see what you think. If you decide you want to add the glycerin, just knead it into the soap a bit at a time, just like you would knead bread dough. The soap will be difficult to knead at first, but it will soften up as you work with it, especially if it's not fully dried/cured. That's how I have added fragrance to this type of shave soap.
MorpheusPA
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I use a great deal of soybean wax in some soaps, which isn't SA by any stretch but is 87% stearic fatty acid and 11% palmitic (what the other 2% is, I don't know).
So this may be helpful to you, but please ignore me if not. You may also mutter "idiot" as you close the thread, but please don't tell me you did so.
Of course, it has a very high melt point (about 120) and can't be soaped at room temp. It accelerates, but less than you might think it would even soaping at 130+.
While it produces a rock hard bar in and of itself, lather is extremely spare. It does seem to sustain lather pretty well in other oils when used at 10% of the recipe, however.
Used at 15% or over, the bar starts to look waxy. Sometimes, that's an advantage. The bar in the shower has 15% soy wax in it, produces good lather (the remainder is mostly olive with normal levels of coconut, plus a lot of honey and sodium lactate), has a shiny look to it, and is lasting forever.
I made a 40% soy wax bar with mostly coconut and some palm as the remainder for use as a pot-scrubber bar. The soy seriously extends the lifespan of the bars which would otherwise be short, but does reduce the lather. They still work beautifully, they set up fast and hard, and in that case, the waxy look actually works well. I used red mica to give them a little depth and the waxy translucency works perfectly with that.
So this may be helpful to you, but please ignore me if not. You may also mutter "idiot" as you close the thread, but please don't tell me you did so.
Of course, it has a very high melt point (about 120) and can't be soaped at room temp. It accelerates, but less than you might think it would even soaping at 130+.
While it produces a rock hard bar in and of itself, lather is extremely spare. It does seem to sustain lather pretty well in other oils when used at 10% of the recipe, however.
Used at 15% or over, the bar starts to look waxy. Sometimes, that's an advantage. The bar in the shower has 15% soy wax in it, produces good lather (the remainder is mostly olive with normal levels of coconut, plus a lot of honey and sodium lactate), has a shiny look to it, and is lasting forever.
I made a 40% soy wax bar with mostly coconut and some palm as the remainder for use as a pot-scrubber bar. The soy seriously extends the lifespan of the bars which would otherwise be short, but does reduce the lather. They still work beautifully, they set up fast and hard, and in that case, the waxy look actually works well. I used red mica to give them a little depth and the waxy translucency works perfectly with that.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
I did get this done. Here it is (and I am that much closer to being done with my magnum opus.)
https://youtu.be/i_hkIEWfiJQ
Yes yes yes ... danger! I know, I even fessed up to no protective gear on the video notes. I had a sink full of cold water inches away and I'll never do it again.
The lye water here is about 110 and the oils were ~160. When I finished stirring the temp was 185.
Okay, that I can kind of take - but what's with the 'adult movie' music?
LBussy
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It definitely had a "brown chicken-brown cow" vibe. 
TRBeck
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Jack,
The soap will be usable and probably actually great. I have only recently taken to using added glycerin again in my shave soaps. I used it for the first dozen or so batches I made a couple of years back, then dropped it as I didn't think it was doing much for the lather. Still don't. What it does, though, is help with keeping the lather well-hydrated for the duration of the shave. I have 50+ homemade shave soaps in my closet, and no more than a third of them have added glycerin. All lather beautifully.
That said, rebatching isn't a nightmare, not even particularly difficult. If you've hot processed, you're not going to find it problematic. I wouldn't bother, but if you do: add less water than you think you must - I'd aim for about 3-5% of the total soap weight, especially since you're also adding glycerin. Break up your soap as much as you can before starting. It'll go soft pretty quickly IME with rebatched shave soap. Pour while it's still pretty hot as rebatches can sometimes be...er...less smooth.
It ain't no thing. But as I said, I wouldn't bother. Give the shave soap a whirl and I think you'll find the lather is excellent, perhaps even a shade denser than without glycerin. Just saying.
