My first shaving soap is a success!
- Thread starter songwind
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Obsidian
Well-Known Member
Yep, it will melt by itself
LBussy
Well-Known Member
It can ... but why would you? I find it melts faster when combined with the other oils. I think the CO helps conduct the heat to the SA since it melts at a lower temp and is liquid fairly quickly.
I agree with Lee. Melt both together.
This thread isn't too long for you to read - it's just longer than you WANT to read. It is, however, worth the effort.
This thread isn't too long for you to read - it's just longer than you WANT to read. It is, however, worth the effort.
boyago
Well-Known Member
There's treasure hiding in there.
*
So I finally got the combination of ingredients and free time to try out the recipe as posted by Songwind and that was a blast. I wound up following that with two variations to get a better handle on what is going on. When I was cleaning up and rinsing out my cooking vessel I was getting some rockin lather up so I grabbed my brush and gave it a whirl. Just using what was left in the pot after I squeegeed out the soap I got a very respectable lather. Though I've been very happy with my whole oil supper butter soap I have to say that these soaps may have retired it.
boyago
Well-Known Member
Oh hey I have also been noticing that some of the shave soap manufacturers seem to split the saponification process between NaOH and KOH and respective oils. The label will read something like potasium stearate, sodium cocate, sodium tallowate ect. (forgive me if my chem nomenclature is off) Is this something also done by the artisans or is there some larger manufacturing reasons for doing this?
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Some do indeed do it. There was another thread about shaving soaps where it was talked about having certain fats combining with the KOH alone to give a better a lather. Usually, get all the KOH and stearic/tallow/lard together and then the NaOH and other oils, then mix it all together.
I was thinking of it, since another poster mentioned they did this, to slow down the effects of the stearic acid on trace. There was also a mention of the effect of the high heat on the oils that could be minimized (might have been another thread). Maybe those things aren't issues, but I thought I would minimize them if it was easy enough to do. I guess it would depend on what temp is needed to melt the stearic acid, since I'm cooking it to ~180F in a crockpot anyway.
I've tried making shaving soap both ways. Adding everything in together and separately. I have to admit that adding the stearic after works so much better. I get a much smoother soap that's easier to pour. Of course that's my experience. I just melt the stearic in a small pot over hot water and it doesn't take long at all. I love my shave soap. I stole a brush from my husband and use it to shave my legs now.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
Stearic melts somewhere around 155 give or take, likely not high enough to worry about overheating anything else.
I made this shaving soap today and had such a weird experience, I figured I'd give everyone a good laugh.
I followed instructions, carefully weighing ingredients and setting up the equipment just right. Things went downhill quickly once I added the KOH. The CO went into trace almost immediately, so I then added the melted stearic acid and with one stir of the spoon, the whole thing seized. Talk about surprise. I was completely at a loss. I went over everything and I know that I weighed it all correctly. I had the print out from soap calc in front of me, and I had all right.
After chopping at the mixture for several minutes, I ended up with a bowl full of what looked like hard crumbled wax. I figured, I try melting it, so I stuck in a double boiler and boiled away. Nothing doing. So, then I just poured it into a sauce span and put it over a burner on high. I was able to get it to smoke, but not a single crumble melted. Then it hit me that maybe something was wrong with the stearic acid or the KOH, so I checked the packaging. Stearic acid was what it should be, but the KOH was NaOH! I just ordered it and they sent it in a plastic bag with a tiny label where you could barely see what it said. They sent me the wrong stuff and I never thought to double check it. I was leery when I saw the plastic bag and thought it was a very unsafe way to ship a caustic substance. Anyway, lessen learned - always double check a product that you receive to make sure they filled the order correctly. Now, I know what happens when you try to make this recipe with NaOH - an indestructible wax forms. I tried taking a piece to see if I could get it to foam and I couldn't create a single bubble out of it. I'm just glad that it was only an 8 ounce batch.
I followed instructions, carefully weighing ingredients and setting up the equipment just right. Things went downhill quickly once I added the KOH. The CO went into trace almost immediately, so I then added the melted stearic acid and with one stir of the spoon, the whole thing seized. Talk about surprise. I was completely at a loss. I went over everything and I know that I weighed it all correctly. I had the print out from soap calc in front of me, and I had all right.
After chopping at the mixture for several minutes, I ended up with a bowl full of what looked like hard crumbled wax. I figured, I try melting it, so I stuck in a double boiler and boiled away. Nothing doing. So, then I just poured it into a sauce span and put it over a burner on high. I was able to get it to smoke, but not a single crumble melted. Then it hit me that maybe something was wrong with the stearic acid or the KOH, so I checked the packaging. Stearic acid was what it should be, but the KOH was NaOH! I just ordered it and they sent it in a plastic bag with a tiny label where you could barely see what it said. They sent me the wrong stuff and I never thought to double check it. I was leery when I saw the plastic bag and thought it was a very unsafe way to ship a caustic substance. Anyway, lessen learned - always double check a product that you receive to make sure they filled the order correctly. Now, I know what happens when you try to make this recipe with NaOH - an indestructible wax forms. I tried taking a piece to see if I could get it to foam and I couldn't create a single bubble out of it. I'm just glad that it was only an 8 ounce batch.
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
I would run your recipe back through soapcalc but use the NaOH setting and see how bad your batch is messed up. Maybe you could add some OO oil and at least get a usable bar?
I did that and there's almost 50% more NaOH than there should be. I can't get this crumbled mess to melt, so I'm not sure I can rebatch it in any way. Would letting it sit in an oil for awhile help?
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
Probably not, water might soften it up but I don't know if it would be enough. It sounds like it might be better to toss it as this point as apposed to wasting more oil to try and fix it.
I generally always try to fix mistakes but this one sounds like a real mess. Hope your lye supplier will fix their mess up and get your KOH to you.
A good tip- also for when you have KOH there but might make a mistake - KOH tends to fizz when added to water in a way that NaOH doesn't.
Sorry to hear that it didn't work. Next one will
Sorry to hear that it didn't work. Next one will
Curiosity got the best of me, so I decided to try and rebatch the soap. I ground up the crumbly mess and added the missing CO and water. I put it in a crockpot on high for about 3 hours to get it to melt, which it did, sort of. I would stir the soap every now and then, and the melted soap stuck to the spoon would harden almost instantly when I took the spoon out of the pot, so I didn't have a lot of hope. In fact, I decided not to add any fragrance, since at that point, it didn't look good.
I decided to not try to get it into a mold, so I just put it on wax paper and quickly rolled it into a log shape. Within 5 minutes it was like a rock! I decided to give it a try, so I cut a small amount off and lathered it up with a brush. It didn't lather nearly as well as what I've seen in the photos in this thread. However, it did work very well for a shave. There were some some hard crumbs breaking off the bar which were a bit of an annoyance. Overall, I sort of saved it, but I won't use it and wouldn't want to even give it away.
For now, I'll sit back and anticipate the arrival of the KOH.
I decided to not try to get it into a mold, so I just put it on wax paper and quickly rolled it into a log shape. Within 5 minutes it was like a rock! I decided to give it a try, so I cut a small amount off and lathered it up with a brush. It didn't lather nearly as well as what I've seen in the photos in this thread. However, it did work very well for a shave. There were some some hard crumbs breaking off the bar which were a bit of an annoyance. Overall, I sort of saved it, but I won't use it and wouldn't want to even give it away.
For now, I'll sit back and anticipate the arrival of the KOH.
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I made Songwind's recipe back in late November, gave it out last week. The feedback I've gotten is that is does lather well and is very stable, but doesn't soften the beard. I'm a girl; I don't know what do with that information...?
boyago
Well-Known Member
I've heard other talk of this or pre washing their face to soften the bear hairs but for myself while I can get a better easier shave if my face is hot and wet it doesn't seem to matter if I do this via washing with soap or a hot wet towel. I am interested to hear what the other beard cutters have to say though.
