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How to use Citric acid at trace.

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Bubli

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If I do a 3% superfat, would 1/4 tsp of citric acid dissolved in a little dist.water per pound of oils be good amount? I don't want separation or too soft of soap.I don't want to use too much. I know it can be added to lye water, but I don't want to do it that way. I want to add it at trace. I was looking at brambleberry shampoo bar and wanted to try using the citric acid but with my own recipe. HELP PLEASE.
http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/cold-process-soap/sudsy-shampoo-bars/
 

Bubli

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That thread was helpful. Thank you. I tried to figure the math for my recipe on my own, can you tell me if I am right? If I am doing a 16 oz. oil recipe and 1% of that would be 4.53 grams of citric acid. Then I multiply that number by 0.624 grams(extra NaOH to neutralize citric acid)=2.82 grams of EXTRA lye for my 16 oz oil recipe, right? And this can be added to my lye water or mixed with water and added at trace. So, what I'm gathering is, doing it this way won't effect my superfat at all because I'm adding the extra lye to neutralize the citric acid. So this is actually helping with soap scum, chelating, and NOT lowering ph or making a milder bar? Right? Thank you so much for your help DeeAnna. :)
Also, if using citric acid, is it still o.kay to use the sugar and salt?

ANYONE WHO KNOWS FOR SURE CAN ANSWER, I'd like deeAnna's input but I don't want to suggest that I was only asking her. THANKS!
 
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Obsidian

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When I used citric acid, I dissolved it in a bit of water then added it to the lye solution. There will be a slight chemical reaction, it will fizz and bubble up some. I was told to dissolve it in all the water before adding the lye to prevent the fizzy reaction.

I used sugar with mine, sure salt would be ok to.
 

Bubli

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When I used citric acid, I dissolved it in a bit of water then added it to the lye solution. There will be a slight chemical reaction, it will fizz and bubble up some. I was told to dissolve it in all the water before adding the lye to prevent the fizzy reaction.

I used sugar with mine, sure salt would be ok to.
So do you think my math is accurate?
 

Obsidian

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Beats me, I adjust my recipe so its 500 grams of oil. That way I can just use the formula I found on the forum.
 

Bubli

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Lol! K, thanks anyway. I appreciate it all the same :)
 

DeeAnna

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"...If I am doing a 16 oz. oil recipe and 1% of that would be 4.53 grams of citric acid. Then I multiply that number by 0.624 grams(extra NaOH to neutralize citric acid)=2.82 grams of EXTRA lye for my 16 oz oil recipe, right? And this can be added to my lye water or mixed with water and added at trace. So, what I'm gathering is, doing it this way won't effect my superfat at all because I'm adding the extra lye to neutralize the citric acid. So this is actually helping with soap scum, chelating, and NOT lowering ph or making a milder bar? Right? Thank you so much for your help DeeAnna.
Also, if using citric acid, is it still o.kay to use the sugar and salt?..."

Um, okay, I agree with your calc about 2.82 g more NaOH for the 4.53 g citric. Check.
Yes, it can be added to your lye water. I'd add the citric to just the water, stir to dissolve, then slowly add the lye. Not to say there aren't other ways to do it, but this makes the most sense to me.
It should not affect your superfat. Yes, I agree it should not.
Soap scum, chelating, not lowering pH. Yep, I agree with those points too.
Can you use sugar and salt? Yes to both. I'd also add them to the water before you add the lye.

Hope this helps! :)
 

Bubli

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Took on a second job and just today had my first chance to try using citric acid for the first time.

Did a 32 oz oil recipe, with 1% CA. Also I subbed 8% of the olive oil with cocoa butter this time. Also I used EVOO INSTEAD OF PURE OR POMACE.

Question:
"Would any if these changes cause my soap to gel MUCH slower?"I combined water and oils at 125, am using the bramble berry 9 bar wood mold with dividers and lid and a heating pad instead if cpop. Poured 7 hours ago and no visible gel yet.
 

Bubli

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No first time using the heating pad. I wanted to cpop but it was a wood glued mold and was advised not to. The temp inside mold remained a constant 110-120*F. I also used sugar and salt but always have with this recipe. I'm wondering if the different type ingredients....EVOO instead of pumice, evco instead of the cheaper, unrefined babassu instead of refined and bleached and the new addition of organic unbleached cocoa butter. The only other variant is the BB wood 9 bar mold lined with what ever those plastic dividers are with lid. Strange.

I'm wondering if it did gel but was not apparent on the surface. Because as warm as it stayed for so long(12 hours on the pad at up to 120) I don't see how it could have avoided gel even if it wanted to.

I unmolded this morning and it is beautiful and hard as a rock! Getting the soap off those darn dividers was a b!!!! And a half, but once I found the trick,the results were worth the extra frustration. The soap is awesome regardless......I just can not stand not being able to figure out why something doesn't work as I expect it to when in my mind it should have. I'm at work right now, and forgot to take a pic. but when I get home I'll send in a pick. I am so pleased with the color and size of the bars and the hardness. Oh and at 24 hours it passed zap test. Haven't done the ph test yet. Catch y'all on the flip side and if I don't get back before Christmas...."Have very christmas!"

ImageUploadedBySoap Making1419093429.802263.jpg

Here's the pic. Hope it shows. I am pleased with it and now that it's been exposed to air I can see into the soap like it did go through gel. It just wasn't apparent on the surface....strange.
 
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cmzaha

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I do not have a tub, but we find the chelating helps considerably in the shower. Even my hubby has noticed the difference of no/or considerably less soap scum on the tile. I mixed my citric acid into a 50/50 solution and add it into my oils before my lye. Since I soap with a 50/50 lye solution, this worked out the best way for me
 

Bubli

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AWSOME! I've yet to use my soap with citric acid, but if it helps with scum even a little that would be great.
 

Obsidian

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I use CA in a high lard recipe that normally produces a lot of scum, since the addition, the amount of scum is much less. I dissolve it in my water before adding the lye.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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I've started using it in all my recipes. Not yet used it in a recipe that has cured out, but early signs are promising - less scum and better lathering in hard water are not bad things
 
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