how natural is lye?

[isis]

Hello,

I am very new to the idea of making soap. My goal is to make a soap that is completely natural. I have a couple of books "the soap makers companion" and "the natural soap book", (I admit I haven't been able to read too much of them yet), what I have read so far, it appears that you have to use lye. My question is, how can a natural soap be made if there is lye in it? is it still considered natural? Any and all help is very much appreciated! Thank you!

~Isis

 

[three_little_fishes]

Lye is natural. It's made from wood ash and water. ETA: I think it can also be made from salt and gelatin, both also natural.

Hope that helps some! I'm new to soapmaking myself so hopefully some people who know more can help out too.

 

[DeeAnna]

To answer your specific question, the answer is no -- sodium hydroxide (lye) is not normally found lying around in nature, so soap made from lye is not strictly "natural" as you seem to define the term. Sodium hydroxide is far too reactive chemically. It wants to react quickly with other materials to produce something other than sodium hydroxide.

Sodium hydroxide, as it is produced today, is made by passing an electric current through a concentrated brine (brine = very salty water). The salt (sodium chloride) in the brine breaks down from the electric current. The process is called electrolysis. The products of this chemical reaction are chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide. I used to work in a chemical plant that did exactly this. The brine used was ancient sea water pumped from deep underground.

You will probably have to find a compromise stance on this issue, if you want to make soap. Cuz there's no way around using sodium hydroxide (or potassium hydroxide) to make soap.

--DeeAnna

 

[Moonshea Botanicals]

Lye is natural. It's made from wood ash and water.

What you are thinking of is potassium hydroxide aka Caustic potash or potash lye.

 

[Lindy]

What you are thinking of is potassium hydroxide aka Caustic potash or potash lye.

Which is used to make liquid soap. When done in the 'olden' days they would have to "salt the soap" which literally means to add salt which causes the soap to thicken which was then poured into boxes with absorbent material to dry and cure.

 

[100%Natural]

Unless you make your own lye from scratch, the old fashioned way, I don't think we can call it natural. It's no different with oxides and micas. They started out natural too, but have been morphed into lab creations. As far as I know they're all safe to use, but not entirely natural.

I would love to be able to say my soaps are 100% Natural, but in all good conscience, I can't. All because of the lye. Darn it!

 

[100%Natural]

Check out this link from EWG. Really good website for a ton of serious reading.

http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredient/706075/SODIUM_HYDROXIDE/

 

[Genny]

I prefer personal care truth over EWG
http://personalcaretruth.com/

EWG used to be pretty good. But now they use old, out of date studies in their research. Plus, they give ingredients a rating, even though they say they have no data on it. How can you do that? They give Lime Essential Oil a C because it contains formeldahyde :eh:

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Check out this link from EWG. Really good website for a ton of serious reading.

http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredient/706075/SODIUM_HYDROXIDE/

I wouldn't use the EWG website, personally. It is another "fear mongering" website. If you look at half the stuff listed on EWG website(s), everything causes cancer. They seem to use "sensationalism" to promote their purpose/claims.

PersonalCareTruth.com uses scientific research to back up their claims/opinions/results.

Ah, the "natural" conundrum...

As for the "is lye natural" debate...commercial lye that we purchase is not natural, but as other people have stated, it is a "processing agent" more than an "ingredient" (even though I'm an advocate of listing it on your ingredients label). If you push the "natural" definition...unless you pluck it off a tree or dig it up from the Earth and use it as is, it isn't "natural". Unless youre rendering your own fats or extracting your own vegetable oils, they have been processed through either chemical or mechanical means. Same with EOs. On the other end of "natural", there are "nature identical" FOs and oxides. We use electric stick blenders, silicone molds, etc...so everyone's definition of "natural" may be different, but I'll share mine (and my business "model", so to speak):

Natural IMO: Herbs or Clays as colorants, EOs as scent...I personally use vegetable oils, but animal fats are obviously natural also. All these things are "naturally derived", meaning they are found in nature, though possibly not in the form they are used in. EOs are found in the plant matter and need various extraction methods to obtain them...but they are naturally sourced. Same with herbs and clays.
I obviously use commercially produced lye for safety and consistency. No way around that. (Yes, you can make your own potash, but I wouldn't for products I intend to sell to the public.)
I'm not so sure how I feel about oxides (I don't use them) or "nature identical" ingredients. Micas are mostly lab created to avoid lead contamination found in the natural source, so obviously not "natural", but probably safer than the natural version (I don't use Micas either). I do use a "natural" Almond Fragrance that is derived from Cinnamon Bark (benzaldehyde), so I still consider that natural - not natural Almond, but Cinnamon is natural in my book.

Keep in mind that my opinion of "natural" may be different than others...I don't expect you to substitute my judgment for your own...just sharing

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Genny! Again? We may have been separated at birth...

 

[100%Natural]

Great points on the out of date information. I find EWG helpful with their actual product ratings. I can look at a brand of soap and its ingredients then compare it to my recipe and get a decent idea of where my bar stands.

I can't wait to check out PersonalCareTruth.com!

Here's another website worth checking out. This is one of my absolute favourites. http://www.davidsuzuki.org/issues/h...ic-products/?gclid=CLzKlZuT6LQCFegWMgodGS0AWw

It's Canadian but applies all around I think.

I'm really glad to find some like minded people because my friends and family don't understand soap talk very well...lol.

 

[Genny]

Genny! Again? We may have been separated at birth...

Possibly, except you're older than me :twisted:

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Possibly, except you're older than me :twisted:

Rub it in, Genny...Rub it in...:evil:

I prefer to think of myself as "vintage", like a fine wine:
"Oh, this 1973 vintage Chateau Bladdityblah will go purrrrrfect with the Truffle Oil braised Escargot!"

Doesn't that sound better than:
"I'm 39, but some days I feel 89. **** kids!"

 

[houseofwool]

Doesn't that sound better than:
"I'm 39, but some days I feel 89. **** kids!"

Isn't that the gawd's honest truth!

 

[Genny]

"Oh, this 1973 vintage Chateau Bladdityblah will go purrrrrfect with the Truffle Oil braised Escargot!"

Snails? I had them once, couldn't stand them.

How about a nice expensive chocolate instead?

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Ooh, chocolate! Yes!
And it's "natural"! ;-)

 

[houseofwool]

And loaded with healthy things like antioxidants. If it is dark chocolate, I consider it to be health food, particularly when paired with a good red wine.

 

[Genny]

And loaded with healthy things like antioxidants. If it is dark chocolate, I consider it to be health food, particularly when paired with a good red wine.

I really don't like dark chocolate, only milk chocolate. But it's "milk chocolate". Everyone knows that milk's good for you

Of course when I told my 10 yr old daughter that once, she said, "If milk's so healthy for you, why are cows so fat?"

 

[houseofwool]

I'm not a red wine or dark chocolate fan, but paired, they are pretty good.

 

[lizflowers42]

I prefer to think of myself as "vintage", like a fine wine:
"Oh, this 1973 vintage Chateau Bladdityblah will go purrrrrfect with the Truffle Oil braised Escargot!"

Are you guys huffing cookie dough essence again?