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How do you make a gel creme for hair?

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xoticsoaps

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Does anyone know of any blog posts or videos on how to make a gel creme for hair like Sunsilk Hydra TLC 24/7 Creme? I'm trying to figure out the procedure so that that I can formulate one.
 

xoticsoaps

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Well, can you all just tell me if I would follow the procedure for making lotion to make this hair gel cream?
 

Susie

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The echoing silence probably means that no one makes that type of product. I know I am only watching this thread to see if someone has made it so that I can see how it is done also. No one is being mean.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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Quite. Do you want everyone who doesn't know to post saying that they don't know? Or for someone to look in to it for you and give you the answer?

Also, 12 hours is not long at all. Unless you have to make this right this minute (in which case, it's your own fault for bad planning!) then just give it more time.
 

DeeAnna

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It might also be helpful to list the ingredients and explain why you want to dupe this particular product. I for one don't mind helping if I can, but it's nice if the OP will set up the problem so others don't have to do all of that grunt work.
 

Susie

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I did try to find a list of ingredients (in the middle of the night), but was not awake or motivated enough to pursue it. Had you listed those ingredients, I/we could have at least given you some educated guesses.
 

snappyllama

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As with all things B&B, I'd start by taking a look at the ingredients and hopping over to swiftmonkey point of interest blog for a good read up on them to get a basic understanding of the formula (supplemented by additional research on things that aren't mentioned there).

Procedure (I would think) would follow the standard:

Figure out what's water based.
Figure out what's oil based.
Separate out heat sensitive things like preservatives, some additives.
Try to come up with logical percentages of each based on order of ingredient list, similar sounding recipe amounts, and safe/recommended usage amounts.
Come up with a base-line "educated hunch" recipe.

Heat and hold oil and water phases.
Combine/Emulsify.
When appropriate temperature is cool enough, add heat sensitive separated things.
Combine.
Test.
Adjust formulation.
Repeat.
 

xoticsoaps

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Whoa. Hey. Wait a minute. Lets remember that this is the internet and interpretation of what people post can vary among those reading it. I never said that I thought anyone was being mean or that I wanted someone else to do the leg work and report back to me. I just know that sometimes threads go unseen if there's no activity, which is why I decided to put a 2nd post.

Look, I didn't post hoping for someone to create a recipe for me. I'm just having a hard time finding out how would I go about creating a gel cream for hair, maybe I'm calling it the wrong thing, similar to the constancy & hold of the sunsilk product that was discontinued.

I'm sorry if I came off to anyone in the wrong way. It wasn't intended.

As with all things B&B, I'd start by taking a look at the ingredients and hopping over to swiftmonkey point of interest blog for a good read up on them to get a basic understanding of the formula (supplemented by additional research on things that aren't mentioned there).

Procedure (I would think) would follow the standard:

Figure out what's water based.
Figure out what's oil based.
Separate out heat sensitive things like preservatives, some additives.
Try to come up with logical percentages of each based on order of ingredient list, similar sounding recipe amounts, and safe/recommended usage amounts.
Come up with a base-line "educated hunch" recipe.

Heat and hold oil and water phases.
Combine/Emulsify.
When appropriate temperature is cool enough, add heat sensitive separated things.
Combine.
Test.
Adjust formulation.
Repeat.

Thank you. This was kind of what I was hoping to find out. The majority of ingredients used in the sunsilk product are super foreign to me and I was feeling a bit overwhelmed. I had asked this same thing other places, but got no responses there either.
 
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Susie

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OK, fair enough. But the point still stands that if you give us the ingredient list, we may be able to give you some *slightly more* educated guesses as to how to proceed. I really can't find an ingredient list, however, and I am usually pretty good at locating those. So, if you have a bottle, please share the ingredient list.
 

DeeAnna

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No problem, Xotic ... it's just that without any ingredients list, it's hard to answer your question with any detail. I looked briefly this morning for ingredients without any luck. I'd guess it's probably some type of lotion, but I really don't know that to be correct. I'd say Snappy's post is about as helpful as I think anyone can offer given the current lack of information.

ETA: Here is my go-to resource for products like this: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/ and Anne Watson's book Smart Lotionmaking is a good how-to book for making safe, effective lotions.
 
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xoticsoaps

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It might also be helpful to list the ingredients and explain why you want to dupe this particular product. I for one don't mind helping if I can, but it's nice if the OP will set up the problem so others don't have to do all of that grunt work.

I thought I had. I didn't post the ingredients because I wasn't looking for a recipe, just a procedure. Believe me, before and after I posted I had been searching the net trying to figure out how to start. I have no interest in others doing grunt work for me.


Here are the ingredients:


Label Ingredients:

water, cetearyl alcohol, cyclopentasiloxane, dimethiconol, glycerin, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, cetrimonium chloride, fragrance, mineral oil, petrolatum, hydroxyethylcellulose, citric acid, DMDM hydantoin (formaldehyde releaser preservative), disodium EDTA, TEA-Dodecylbenzenesulfonate, tocopheryl acetate, iodopropynyl butylcarbarmate, hair kertain amino acids, propylene glycol, ethoxydiglycol, rosemary leaf extract, orange 4, red 33


My Version Ingredients:

water, cetearyl alcohol, cyclopentasiloxane (silicone & lubricate), dimethiconol (silicone & hair conditioner), glycerin, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine (silicone & hair conditioner), cetrimonium chloride (antiseptic & surfactant), fragrance, brazil nut oil, chia seed oil, hydroxyethylcellulose (gelling & thickening agent), preservative, disodium EDTA (chelating agent), TEA-Dodecylbenzenesulfonate (surfactant), tocopheryl acetate, hair kertain amino acids, ethoxydiglycol (solvent), rosemary leaf extract

@DeeAnna - I quoted you before seeing your latest post. Sorry about the lack of detail. I don't really know what you would call it, but it's something like a creamy hair gel. The company discontinued the product and moved their whole operation out of the U.S. back in 2010. Sunsilk seemed pretty popular back then, but that was a long time ago.

 
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DeeAnna

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The ingredients list not only tells me the ingredients in the product, but the KIND of ingredients being used give important clues to how the product was made.

This product looks more like a synthetic surfactant type of product than a typical emulsified oil-and-water lotion, so I'm not sure you need to follow the usual lotion making protocol being suggested to you earlier in this thread.

It looks like it is closer to Susan's syn-det shampoo recipes with added conditioning ingredients. These products can be made with a simpler process of just mixing the ingredients and packaging the product in a sanitary way, rather than having to go through the whole process of heat-and-hold and emulsifying with a stick blender.

I'd sure check Susan's hair care info for suggestions on making this type of product: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/p/hair-care.html

The HEC thickener can be tricky to work with. I've never used it, but Faith Gratz Oriold uses it a lot to thicken her liquid soap. Might contact her for tips.
 

xoticsoaps

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The ingredients list not only tells me the ingredients in the product, but the KIND of ingredients being used give important clues to how the product was made.

This product looks more like a synthetic surfactant type of product than a typical emulsified oil-and-water lotion, so I'm not sure you need to follow the usual lotion making protocol being suggested to you earlier in this thread.

It looks like it is closer to Susan's syn-det shampoo recipes with added conditioning ingredients. These products can be made with a simpler process of just mixing the ingredients and packaging the product in a sanitary way, rather than having to go through the whole process of heat-and-hold and emulsifying with a stick blender.

I'd sure check Susan's hair care info for suggestions on making this type of product: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/p/hair-care.html

The HEC thickener can be tricky to work with. I've never used it, but Faith Gratz Oriold uses it a lot to thicken her liquid soap. Might contact her for tips.

Ok. Definitely noted. If I should have any questions like this in the future I will make sure to keep what you've said in mind. Thank you. This is a leave-in product, but maybe the process is still the same.
 
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Trix

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Hi xoticosoaps, imhave never tried a hair gel as not intrested but on another none english forum that has been going on for almost a decade now, so many people tried their own version and post their tutorials.

In summary, it starts by mixing the gelling agent or gum or whatever your using with the glycerine, then water then preservative. I would probably put all the silicones, which possibly could have been mixed into 'one product of different ratios' over here. Make sure everything is mixed well.

Check which ingredients are oil soluble(by the looks of it, everything else) and add them together with the oils, when everything is mixed well, mix the two or three phases this seems to have been made by together.
I would use a stick blender just a lit bit, to make sure everything is thickened well, as i dont think this made like a lotion is made.

I will come and check this out again tomorrow, as it is quite late where i am, but just wanted to share what i think of this opaque gel :)
 

xoticsoaps

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Hi xoticosoaps, imhave never tried a hair gel as not intrested but on another none english forum that has been going on for almost a decade now, so many people tried their own version and post their tutorials.

In summary, it starts by mixing the gelling agent or gum or whatever your using with the glycerine, then water then preservative. I would probably put all the silicones, which possibly could have been mixed into 'one product of different ratios' over here. Make sure everything is mixed well.

Check which ingredients are oil soluble(by the looks of it, everything else) and add them together with the oils, when everything is mixed well, mix the two or three phases this seems to have been made by together.
I would use a stick blender just a lit bit, to make sure everything is thickened well, as i dont think this made like a lotion is made.

I will come and check this out again tomorrow, as it is quite late where i am, but just wanted to share what i think of this opaque gel :)

Cool! Thank you, Trix. I finished working out the measurements, for the most part, and will definitely try this order of mixing. :D
 

Trix

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Cool! Thank you, Trix. I finished working out the measurements, for the most part, and will definitely try this order of mixing. :D
Your welcome xoticosoaps though wish i could be of more help.
Do u know about this formulary? I found another hair gel recipe for you, and this to really makes me think u should be doing 3 phases where the water content is split between at least two of the phases.
Ofcourse this hair molding gel isnt what you were after but at least the phases and methods will give you more clues :)
http://www.happi.com/issues/2013-03/view_formulary/free-style-molding-gel/

Let us know how your gel turns out when you make it again!
 
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