FDA Warning Letter to doTerra

[Spice]

I didn't know if you were saying that soaps with those EOs will be just as effective as the EOs themselves. I use those two oils for similar issues and they work very well for me as well. I would be cautious in claiming the same thing about the soaps though, as I couldn't possibly know how much of the beneficial effects actually survived the lye and soap is a wash off product.

Btw, I thought of using them because of the anecdotal references I read, not because I researched for and assured by any medical evidence, I also use turmeric in steam therapy when I have a cold coming, it stops them in their tracks 9 times out of 10, so I beleive that information even if it is only anecdotal, needs to be available and not stomped out. Why because, when used properly it will keep you from dousing on OTC meds with their possible side effects which are several.
Also, I keep seeing this advice, not to make claims, it makes you essentially a liar kind of thing, but I wonder how many would actually take up soaping if nobody ever said anything about handmade soaps except that it cleans and how many would have missed out on this beautiful, sometimes life changing experience. So yeah, if something works one shouldn't be afraid to say so, not everything needs to be proved scientifically through a huge double blind randomized clinical trial. They didn't exist a century ago but the field of medicine has been evolving for millennia. Beleive it or not doctors existed for just as long and they cured many ailments. And beleive me when I say Ayurveda is not a sham.
I guess the essence of my post here is that not everything needs to be so strictly regulated that the valuable information gathered over thousands of years of human existence is lost behind EBM ( evidence based medicine) and that us home crafters are afraid to say our wonderful soaps moisturize or to use our 20% zinc oxide creams as sunscreens.

Yes EO's are just as effective.

 

[em79]

I told the multiple DoTerra and YL reps that if I used thier oils, I would have to charge $25 per bar of soap and I would be happy to make them some soaps if they supplied me with the EO! Once they found out how much it took for a loaf, they changed their mind about wanting some. One way to shut them up...

Brilliant answer !!!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Yes EO's are just as effective.

Can you let me know where the studies are on this? Is that hp or cp? Would be interesting to check out

 

[Susie]

True, but devil's advocate here. A lot of that was absolutely abysmal infant mortality rates. If you made it to age 21, you had an excellent chance of living a pretty long life.

Mostly, vaccination (and the resulting herd immunity) helped protect infants. Simple disinfection helped save a lot of lives and similarly reduced infant (and mother!) mortality.

Dying at age 0.05 throws the average down more than somebody who manages to live to 80 lifts it.

Un-devil's advocating, essential oils certainly existed. They didn't help. What did help was the wide synthesis of carbolic acid (for disinfection) and the discovery that people who got cowpox didn't get the Great Pox.

Yes, but, saying things like this is patently untrue...

Back 200 years people didnt die of cancer, it was due to some farm accidents, being mauled by wild animals, injuries that never healed properly, snake bites or just over worked. Today its a job just getting off the couch. Just saying.

Women also died in childbirth at an astounding rate. Yes, the carbolic acid was a great lifesaver, I know. But you have to admit that the invention of modern antibiotics had a thing or two to do with it. People did indeed die of cancer 200 years ago. Also heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, kidney failure due to many different causes, high blood pressure, tuberculosis, and any number of other "treatable" diseases we face today.

My bottom line is this: if you want to treat your illnesses with essential oils and other "natural, holistic, or other non-western medicine" methods, go right ahead. Only move out to a deserted place first, we don't need you landing in a modern hospital where they are going to give in to your demands and take up valuable space and resources that other people desperately need.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Yes, but, saying things like this is patently untrue...

Completely agreed!

Women also died in childbirth at an astounding rate. Yes, the carbolic acid was a great lifesaver, I know. But you have to admit that the invention of modern antibiotics had a thing or two to do with it. People did indeed die of cancer 200 years ago. Also heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, kidney failure due to many different causes, high blood pressure, tuberculosis, and any number of other "treatable" diseases we face today.

Lousy medical technology and poor post-death diagnosis pretty much resulted in most death certificates (if one was even issued in most places) reading "He done up and died."

So yep, people died of stuff that's either curable or treatable today. They just usually didn't diagnose it.

It's interesting to note that we've discovered dinosaur fossils with cancer, and the modern claim that sharks don't get cancer is completely incorrect. They do.

Off the cuff, I'd be hard-pressed to pick just one innovation that's been the most definitive in saving lives, as they were all such an improvement over what went before that the change is incomparable. But your statement that antibiotics were impressive is without doubt. They sure kicked the butt of the earlier sulfa drugs!

My bottom line is this: if you want to treat your illnesses with essential oils and other "natural, holistic, or other non-western medicine" methods, go right ahead. Only move out to a deserted place first, we don't need you landing in a modern hospital where they are going to give in to your demands and take up valuable space and resources that other people desperately need.

Eh, I suppose it depends. For colds, I tend to evaporate a bit of eucalyptus oil into the air. Since you can only treat the symptoms (and colds aren't generally life-threatening), and since eucalyptus opens my sinuses a little bit for a while, I'll take it. I still take Ibuprofin to combat the aches and fever, of course, but willow bark tea would probably do tolerably well.

For more serious or chronic conditions that cause damage, it's western medicine all the way.

 

[kumudini]

The art and science of healing has been around for ages. Well meaning people have tried to decrease human suffering, otherwise the western world wouldn't have known Hippocrates or us Indians about Charaka and Sushrutha and many such great figures around the world in all cultures.
Their instruments were mostly their well respected teachers and their own inquisitive minds and keen observation. They didn't have hundreds of universities with thousands of medical and paramedical students, they didn't have computers and Internet. The knowledge couldn't be easily disseminated. But they in their earnest tried their best to heal and in that process passed on their wisdom to future generations. The modern medicine and big pharmacies haven't just popped up on the surface of earth one day and said we are going to take over health care for all the people. The beginning was indeed those well meaning doctors and their discoveries. Initially the meds were also plant derived. Progresses elsewhere, in the field of physics and chemistry and many other scientifical fields made it possible for the medical field to evolve at an unprecedented pace. It is still a work in progress. We are never done learning new things.
What is interesting though is how the modern medicine has alienated all its predecessors. I wonder if it is not partially driven by greed at some level. Whether it is or not, I feel that healing should be about doing most good while causing the least harm. If one wants to treat a patient as a whole being, relying solely on man made chemicals comes short. There are so many wonderful forms of healing, and the best doctor integrates all those things for the best possible outcome for their patients. It should never be modern medicine against all others and unfortunately it is.
I shouldn't have to choose my left eye or the right.
I know, most of you will say prove something and you can sell it. Unfortunately it means that prove your eucalyptus oil is effective by doing some expensive studies and you get to patent it, bottle and label it and charge an arm and leg for it. MorpheusPA wouldn't be able to buy those few drops without going to a doctor, cough up the copay, get a script and shell out money for the tiny bottle. And may be he will reach for that NyQuil cold instead, what a win win!
Iam not supporting any EO company that is making those crazy claims. I'm all about keeping an open mind and educating one self and not following anything blindly. I realize this is not a topic for this forum. We are mostly soapers who want to use these wonderful chemicals called essential oils in soaps by the pound. I hope these will continue to be available for those purposes.
And Susie, it would help to think that may be those who are trying to put good things in and on their bodies actually pay big money for health insurance and they have every right to go into hospitals as much as those who do a bunch of harm to themselves by making all kinds of uneducated choices in health, food and lifestyle.

 

[Susie]

Eh, I suppose it depends. For colds, I tend to evaporate a bit of eucalyptus oil into the air. Since you can only treat the symptoms (and colds aren't generally life-threatening), and since eucalyptus opens my sinuses a little bit for a while, I'll take it. I still take Ibuprofin to combat the aches and fever, of course, but willow bark tea would probably do tolerably well.

For more serious or chronic conditions that cause damage, it's western medicine all the way.

I don't even treat colds unless I think I am about to get a sinus infection. Just give it saline nose spray and time. As my dad used to say, "You treat a cold, and it lasts 7-10 days. You don't treat a cold and it lasts a week to a week and a half."

And Susie, it would help to think that may be those who are trying to put good things in and on their bodies actually pay big money for health insurance and they have every right to go into hospitals as much as those who do a bunch of harm to themselves by making all kinds of uneducated choices in health, food and lifestyle.

I am not arguing a bit with anything you had to say. Yes, there are people who choose to use all forms of medicine, often with good results. I am not judging anyone based on whether they have insurance or not. I am only disagreeing with the folks who act like all health ills occurred after the advent of modern medicine, and mostly because of what the FDA has or has not done.

It is frustrating, however, to be the nurse(or doctor, but I am a nurse, so I am speaking only from personal experience here), and a patient comes into the hospital who only wants "traditional, natural, holistic treatment". They refuse simple lab tests, x-rays, and modern medications of all sorts. You have no idea how frustrating that can be.

 

[kumudini]

It is frustrating, however, to be the nurse(or doctor, but I am a nurse, so I am speaking only from personal experience here), and a patient comes into the hospital who only wants "traditional, natural, holistic treatment". They refuse simple lab tests, x-rays, and modern medications of all sorts. You have no idea how frustrating that can be.

That would frustrate me to no end Susie, I agree. you or any other medical provider shouldn't have to put up with that. It's as simple as ' if you don't want the services we provide, go look for one who provides services you prefer'. But I guess you really can't say that in an emergency setting.

 

[MorpheusPA]

I don't even treat colds unless I think I am about to get a sinus infection. Just give it saline nose spray and time. As my dad used to say, "You treat a cold, and it lasts 7-10 days. You don't treat a cold and it lasts a week to a week and a half."

Very true. I have a suspicion that the eucalyptus doesn't do jack except make me feel proactive.

During most colds, I'll take it. Just keeping the oil in the vaporizer distributor kills a minute or two every couple hours, which is totally worth it when I have a cold!

 

[not_ally]

I agree with what many/most seem to be saying, which is that you don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water either way. Like V, I am Indian, and am very appreciative of the 1000's of years of ayurvedic learning/expertise that the best practitioners draw upon there. My dad is a big ayurveda fan, as well as having a PhD in molecular biology and having spent his life working doing medical research for BigCo pharma.

But I am also super glad to have good health insurance and the availability of "modern" medicine/techniques, and carefully regulated/tested drugs. I think making it a binary choice is unnecessary and polarizing.

 

[Aline]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/davidjstokes/1800.htm

Life expectancy in the early 1800's was 40 years. This was pre-FDA, pre-real medicine, pre-all of the things you are complaining about. It was NOT pre-essential oils. Just saying.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...health_and_medical_advances_that_lead_to.html

http://mappinghistory.uoregon.edu/english/US/US39-01.html

From my understanding the increase in life-expectancy is more to do with sanitation, cleaner drinking water and understanding of how disease spreads than the use of drugs. Also, those numbers in the 1800's being so low are partly due to the infant mortality rate which was very high due to squalid living conditions and unheated houses. I'm not dismissing the incredible advances in surgery and life-saving drugs but many other conditions can be treated by natural remedies, without the harmful side-effects.

Edit: just read page 9 and realize I am pretty much repeating....

 

[MorpheusPA]

I know, most of you will say prove something and you can sell it. Unfortunately it means that prove your eucalyptus oil is effective by doing some expensive studies and you get to patent it, bottle and label it and charge an arm and leg for it. MorpheusPA wouldn't be able to buy those few drops without going to a doctor, cough up the copay, get a script and shell out money for the tiny bottle. And may be he will reach for that NyQuil cold instead, what a win win!

Actually, common stuff that's unmodified can't be patented. A company could patent a special process whereby the eucalyptus leaf is treated in a special way to preferentially release whatever clears the sinuses, but couldn't patent cold, hot, or hexane-extracted eucalyptus oil. Such things already exist.

To some extent, this is the reason that many things like this wouldn't be tested. Testing's expensive and the return, in this case, is very small. That's why we have government-funded agencies and grants for things.

Iam not supporting any EO company that is making those crazy claims. I'm all about keeping an open mind and educating one self and not following anything blindly.

Save that any claim not substantiated by double-blind experiment is, by definition, unfounded. So I could (and do) make eucalyptus soap. But I couldn't sell it with the claim that it'll clear your sinuses.

Probably, anyway, there may actually be studies on that. But it would then class as a medication at worst or a cosmetic at best instead of simple soap.