The fda needs a good smack down.
FDA Warning Letter to doTerra
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The fda needs a good smack down.
If your product can do something then just prove it. If you can't prove that it works, there is a good reason for that! Do some blind tests with control groups and if it works, it works.
I think that assuming people will be able to tell bogus claims and research from valid ones is a cop out and very short sighted. A case of "hey, if you can't work it out, too bad" is not helpful to those who can't work it out.
Saying that bogus claims will be worked out of the market in time is also a terrible solution. When I and burying my children because I used Ebola curing soap instead of actual medicine I am sure that the thought that one day these companies will stop making these claims will be of great comfort to me!
You might not like the FDA or agree with regulation. But it is everywhere and it actually helps. Your children learn in schools regulated to make sure that the teaching is not a load of rubbish.you can drive a car regulated to a standard of safety unless it is a gm car. You fill it with fuel made to a standard that works well and gives you a certain level of performance.
The people who do important work on your home should also be regulated. If I come and say I can do your electric works and your house burns down, can I just say "well you should have looked in to my claims"?
I think that assuming people will be able to tell bogus claims and research from valid ones is a cop out and very short sighted. A case of "hey, if you can't work it out, too bad" is not helpful to those who can't work it out.
Saying that bogus claims will be worked out of the market in time is also a terrible solution. When I and burying my children because I used Ebola curing soap instead of actual medicine I am sure that the thought that one day these companies will stop making these claims will be of great comfort to me!
You might not like the FDA or agree with regulation. But it is everywhere and it actually helps. Your children learn in schools regulated to make sure that the teaching is not a load of rubbish.you can drive a car regulated to a standard of safety unless it is a gm car. You fill it with fuel made to a standard that works well and gives you a certain level of performance.
The people who do important work on your home should also be regulated. If I come and say I can do your electric works and your house burns down, can I just say "well you should have looked in to my claims"?
I agree with most of what youre saying to efficacious gentleman. Unfortunately i think there is a middle ground between tried and true 'remedies' be they oils, salts, herbs, minerals, etc which have time tested effectiveness and fda regulated 'drugs' and 'diseases' and even more unfortunately i fear 'never the twain shall meet'. Which is SO unfortunate because given a sane and rational evaluation with no biases or ulterior motives behind either, they could be beautiful and incredibly effective compliments to each other.
Very good point - I have no idea how the FDA approves or dissaproves things.
holistichonnies
Well-Known Member
I managed to do a little bit of research on this last night.
Apparently the FDA didn't get their 'info' from the main sites of do terra and yl.
The info was collated from individual reps own sites. The companies in question tell their reps NOT to make any medical claims :/ it's one of their policies apparently.
Do terra have sent out info to reps in response to this letter and are investigating certain videos reps have put up on you tube which suggest medical use for the oils.
Iv failed so many times I'm becoming an expert
Apparently the FDA didn't get their 'info' from the main sites of do terra and yl.
The info was collated from individual reps own sites. The companies in question tell their reps NOT to make any medical claims :/ it's one of their policies apparently.
Do terra have sent out info to reps in response to this letter and are investigating certain videos reps have put up on you tube which suggest medical use for the oils.
Iv failed so many times I'm becoming an expert
Earthen_Step
Well-Known Member
I don't blame anyone for not reading this post, it's long. I hope it's decent and drives some large picture points home.
Just a few points I'd like to bring up:
-I don't have the time/money/resources to prove something works at the level the FDA requires. Most small businesses do not.
-Many things work for some people and not for others -- biology is extremely complex.
-Even placebos work, they are sugar pills and prescribed by doctors for many ailments. See articles below on how effective placebos can be.
Wikipedia/Placebo
Wired.com
NCBI.gov
More people die from medical practices then home remedies. If more people relied on home remedies for the smaller things there would be much less death or permanent harm. Check this article out for some fun numbers on how great our certified medical structure is...
Mercola.com
The death rate is at 70% with ebola. Honestly I'd rather die at home using my soap than in a hospital full of other dying people. And If I could legally buy my own morphine I'd die in less pain.
A harsher point I'd like to bring up. If people are dumb enough to use an EO to cure something that is easily fixed by modern medicine maybe their genes being buried is not worth the regulations preventing those few occurrences.
I do not like the FDA or agree with it's regulation and it is everywhere. I do not think the costs are worth its mandatory services.
The american education system is terrible and I think it is directly rooted in the federal government. If we had each state free to do it's thing there would be a very diverse education system. Over time the best solutions would be adapted by other states. And I do not think there is one best way to educate, there are many methods that raise intelligence.
Increase spending in education does not = higher test scores
USA test scores stagnant: huffington post -- washington post
Consumers can decide what safety features they want without government mandating it. People like safety and fuel economy, we are not as dumb as the government pretends we are. Companies love these mandates so they can increase costs and often it can favor a single company for some time. Increase costs in consumer vehicles also brings in more tax dollars.
What Might Cars Cost If We Had a Free Market?
If you do a terrible job and burn my house down you could go to jail for criminal negligent homicide if people died -- and pay whatever you can for damages with or without death. Your business would not survive. I do most of my own work around the house, plumbing, electrical, carpentry. I should not require a certificate to do so. When I have hired a job out, I have researched the company it's very easy these days. Sometimes it's asking someone, who would you recommend for this? Other times it's looking for reviews online or using the BBB (nonprofit org - not government).
There are nice apprenticeship programs for trades in the USA. It's done by a mix of schooling and/or On-the-job training. Federal government has little to do with it and it works well enough. Some states adopt the national code because it's easy -- others adopt none of it. If you care about state code and licence requirements for electrical contractors see here. I do not see a correlation at all between deaths in home fires and low electrical certification standards. Although I cannot find stats on those fires made only by electrical errors. You can see here, the 2 states with highest risk of death by fire are in sates with higher regulations. Kansas is a state with none and I cannot find anything showing higher electrical fires because of it.
Grand Finale
I don't care that your country regulates to an extreme level. I care that the United States does. If you disliked the level of regulation I would love for you to be able to move here freely. That was the point of us breaking from the kings rule.
This country was based on individual freedom and limiting central government. That has gone away and I want it back. I would love to have one free developed nation in this world. To me the idea of the United Sates is a great one, but it requires individual and state freedoms for this experiment to take place. If one state regulates things I disagree with, I can move. If the federal government mandates it, there is no where to go. How can we test ideas with such an overpowered central government?
Like I have said before. If the central powers want to create certified FDA approved lists and stamps of approval they should be voluntary. Let people buy FDA/FTC/USDA whatever, but let people chose to disregard it. If it's a great service people will use it, they don't need to use force.
**:shock: That took a while to put together, didn't expect to write so much!**
I just saw this taco bell commercial. An old man is talking to his grandchild in front of taco bell. "This silver dollar has been in our family for generations. I had it with me the night I won the heart of your grandmother. Wait that was Chrissy Redford, don't tell Nana. It even saved my life from a nail gun in the great construction riots. And now I want you to hav... Never mind". It is a nice representation of what past generations have done to the USA. That silver dollar is worth about $20. I need to re-install AdBlock.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJo7QMMfTQ"]youtube commercial link[/ame]
Just a few points I'd like to bring up:
-I don't have the time/money/resources to prove something works at the level the FDA requires. Most small businesses do not.
-Many things work for some people and not for others -- biology is extremely complex.
-Even placebos work, they are sugar pills and prescribed by doctors for many ailments. See articles below on how effective placebos can be.
Wikipedia/Placebo
Wired.com
NCBI.gov
More people die from medical practices then home remedies. If more people relied on home remedies for the smaller things there would be much less death or permanent harm. Check this article out for some fun numbers on how great our certified medical structure is...
Mercola.com
The death rate is at 70% with ebola. Honestly I'd rather die at home using my soap than in a hospital full of other dying people. And If I could legally buy my own morphine I'd die in less pain.
A harsher point I'd like to bring up. If people are dumb enough to use an EO to cure something that is easily fixed by modern medicine maybe their genes being buried is not worth the regulations preventing those few occurrences.
I do not like the FDA or agree with it's regulation and it is everywhere. I do not think the costs are worth its mandatory services.
The american education system is terrible and I think it is directly rooted in the federal government. If we had each state free to do it's thing there would be a very diverse education system. Over time the best solutions would be adapted by other states. And I do not think there is one best way to educate, there are many methods that raise intelligence.
Increase spending in education does not = higher test scores
USA test scores stagnant: huffington post -- washington post
Consumers can decide what safety features they want without government mandating it. People like safety and fuel economy, we are not as dumb as the government pretends we are. Companies love these mandates so they can increase costs and often it can favor a single company for some time. Increase costs in consumer vehicles also brings in more tax dollars.
What Might Cars Cost If We Had a Free Market?
If you do a terrible job and burn my house down you could go to jail for criminal negligent homicide if people died -- and pay whatever you can for damages with or without death. Your business would not survive. I do most of my own work around the house, plumbing, electrical, carpentry. I should not require a certificate to do so. When I have hired a job out, I have researched the company it's very easy these days. Sometimes it's asking someone, who would you recommend for this? Other times it's looking for reviews online or using the BBB (nonprofit org - not government).
There are nice apprenticeship programs for trades in the USA. It's done by a mix of schooling and/or On-the-job training. Federal government has little to do with it and it works well enough. Some states adopt the national code because it's easy -- others adopt none of it. If you care about state code and licence requirements for electrical contractors see here. I do not see a correlation at all between deaths in home fires and low electrical certification standards. Although I cannot find stats on those fires made only by electrical errors. You can see here, the 2 states with highest risk of death by fire are in sates with higher regulations. Kansas is a state with none and I cannot find anything showing higher electrical fires because of it.
Grand Finale
I don't care that your country regulates to an extreme level. I care that the United States does. If you disliked the level of regulation I would love for you to be able to move here freely. That was the point of us breaking from the kings rule.
This country was based on individual freedom and limiting central government. That has gone away and I want it back. I would love to have one free developed nation in this world. To me the idea of the United Sates is a great one, but it requires individual and state freedoms for this experiment to take place. If one state regulates things I disagree with, I can move. If the federal government mandates it, there is no where to go. How can we test ideas with such an overpowered central government?
Like I have said before. If the central powers want to create certified FDA approved lists and stamps of approval they should be voluntary. Let people buy FDA/FTC/USDA whatever, but let people chose to disregard it. If it's a great service people will use it, they don't need to use force.
**:shock: That took a while to put together, didn't expect to write so much!**
I just saw this taco bell commercial. An old man is talking to his grandchild in front of taco bell. "This silver dollar has been in our family for generations. I had it with me the night I won the heart of your grandmother. Wait that was Chrissy Redford, don't tell Nana. It even saved my life from a nail gun in the great construction riots. And now I want you to hav... Never mind". It is a nice representation of what past generations have done to the USA. That silver dollar is worth about $20. I need to re-install AdBlock.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJo7QMMfTQ"]youtube commercial link[/ame]
holistic, Interesting. I wonder if that is a 'what we put on paper and what we say are two different things type situation. I suppose it doesnt really matter though. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of all the reorganizing im sure they are doing now.
That well may be - so can the placebo effect also be a reason why some people seem to benefit from EOs and so on..................?
Biology is complex and things won't work for all folks, but the same is true of a pill, but they still seem to pass a test on being effective.
Does it really cost that much to do a trial and submit the info to the FDA?
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/default.htm
I see a lot in that website about the misuse and over perscription of drugs. To mis-quote a rap song, it tells us that drugs don't kill people, people do.
As for more people dying from medical practices then home remedies, can you please post percentages of users of each that die from what they were trying to treat? Figures alone do not tell the whole story. 100k people from medicine and only 100 from home remedies looks compelling, unless 100billion use medicine 101 use home remedies........
Harsh indeed. but you say modern medicine is killing more people than home remedies one minute, but say that people should use medicine and not home remedies the next.................which one is best - as you can't seem to decide.
I think THIS is the crux of the matter. You dislike regulation.
Federal vs local regulation is still.............regulation! You school system may well be terrible, but if all regulation was done away with, each state would have different standards. While you might not think that is a bad thing, I am sure many interstate employers would be horrified at having to close whole branches because the locals all lack the skills needed as the state decided not to teach that.
Is there another website about the number of deaths in auto accidents if cars lacked some of these features? No airbags or ABS - has the author ever driven a car with no ABS or traction control? It can be fun, but you need to know what you are doing. If I was in America and someone hit me because a company could sell an engine on wheels with nothing to control how well it was built, I would be pretty darn ticked.
FEMA would say otherwise
"
Properly maintain your electrical system and components by[FONT=Joanna MT Std,Joanna MT Std][FONT=Joanna MT Std,Joanna MT Std]:
[/FONT][/FONT]–[FONT=Joanna MT Std,Joanna MT Std][FONT=Joanna MT Std,Joanna MT Std]–Ensuring all residential work is performed by a qualified, licensed electrician and complies with codes and standards.
[/FONT][/FONT]"
taken from
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v14i13.pdf
I am very glad that when I move in to a house over here there needs to be a certificate showing that the electrics were installed by or checked by a qualified person. I don't care if you are awesome with electics, I will not risk my families safety on the fact that someone says that they did a good job of it.
I get it, you love America as a republic of states but not so much central government. Great. 'Murica! #1. But just because your goverment may indeed be inept and borderline corrupt does not make the notion of regulation in general a bad thing.
My daddy always taught me not to discuss politics in mixed company. It just never ends well. And since this has wandered far from CP soap, and reached inferno status, maybe we can all move on?
Certainly, my apologies.
Earthen_Step
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think placebo has a lot to do with EO's and prescriptions.
Good luck getting approved without a lot of money. Research trial studies and required proof can be costly.
Bad hospital medical care contributed to deaths of 180k 2010 -- could be as many as 440k.
American medical system is the leading cause of death
"To date no significant statistics have been published by the National Poisons Unit. Surveys of worldwide literature relating to human toxicity over many years have only uncoverd a handful of deaths resulting from the INGESTION off essential oils. There are a number of cases of minor stomach upsets from exess consumption and a few cases where severe illness has resulted including liver function disorders, but in some cases where recovery has occured, liver and other organ functions have returned to normal" (Source)
It's easy to find a lot of death due to things FDA calls safe. It's very hard to find the deaths due to current home remedy trends.
What is best is between you and what path you want to take. Some people won't accept blood transfers because of religion and have died because of this. That's between them and god. Some people want to have tumors cut out to try and prevent the spread of cancer. That is between them and their doctors/loved ones. I don't think government is needed to tell us not to use something to treat a problem.
It very much is my crux. Your's is that you don't mind force used on people to follow what some organization thinks is best. I want a free society. I don't find it a fault in either of us, I'm sure a lot has contributed to our thought patterns.
Yes it still is regulation and I would migrate to the locality I like best. You see many states have a completely voluntary schooling system. You are not required to take your kids to school. The funny thing is, home-school kids perform much better than those educated in the state run systems. It's not very horrifying at all.
"The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests"
More info
This is hypothetical but I think ABS would be very standard at this point with or without law. Like I said, people like safety.
You can always pay for a 3rd party inspection if you don't trust the word and reviews of people. I don't see how regulation is needed.
I don't love Murica, I love liberty. I would move in one second if I found a great option out there that I could afford. America is a dying dream. I have small hopes and dreams of a better future and that's the reason I even took the time to post this. People can change the world without violence.
I'm glad you have taken the time to respond. It's great to have a healthy debate on such involved subjects. I'm going to bow out though, I have things to do. If you respond I may again later on but not for a couple days. Thanks for the fun debate Efficacious Gentleman, have a wonderful weekend.
Earthen_Step
Well-Known Member
I don't blame you for not watching the video. If I am caught growing poppies can't I end up in prison? I am already happily married.
I did not see your post till now, I was working on the response. I am moved on, sorry if this has offended people.
sassanellat
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Most headaches aren't due to dehydration, or have anything that is remediated by a glass of water. A large majority of 'aromatherapy' does nothing at all. And herbalism? I'll leave it at the folllowing" I know at least a dozen herbalists, met randomly, across several states. All but one has developed severe gastrointestional or urinary tract issues, and all but one have fibromyalga. All those extra, unnecessary, toxic chemicals in the plants are not wise. That said, I'm glad the FDA is stepping in on these wild medical claims. It's always good when we find out that a folk remedy has actual efficacy and why, but many are simply folklore.
TVivian
Well-Known Member
I have to chime in since I attended a Do Terra party just last month! The party hostess began the party by telling us how she makes over 6 figures and now makes more money than her husband. When I saw the price list for the oils I understood why she was making 6 figures.
When she asked us to throw out some ailments we've been feeling, one new mom wanted to know what she could do for a teething baby. The rep told her to rub CLOVE OIL onto the baby's gums!!!! Can you imagine? I couldn't keep my mouth shut on that one and had to tell her that she should never put clove oil near a baby! Someone needs to put a stop to them giving out information that could really hurt someone! I'm still appalled.
When she asked us to throw out some ailments we've been feeling, one new mom wanted to know what she could do for a teething baby. The rep told her to rub CLOVE OIL onto the baby's gums!!!! Can you imagine? I couldn't keep my mouth shut on that one and had to tell her that she should never put clove oil near a baby! Someone needs to put a stop to them giving out information that could really hurt someone! I'm still appalled.
hmlove1218
Well-Known Member
If I could like that 1000 times, I would. The girl who's house I went to told me that she has started rubbing the Thieves blend on the bottom of her 3 year old's feet to keep her from getting sick.. First two ingredients? Cinnamon and clove...
marilynmac
Well-Known Member
The FDA regulates everyone making medical claims. Suppose they let an individual make claims based on anecdotal evidence, or even their own personal evidence, because what the heck the public can test it for themselves. That would leave P&G (for example) free to market ebola-eliminating dish soap and cancer-curing shampoo.
sassanellat
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I've personally seen some of these quotes on the doTerra sites or on the resellers sites for their products, so it's good they they were pulled. If there is actual scientific proof of the claims, then they can make them. If not, you simply cannot shill snake oil (at least concerning medical claims) in this day and age.
goji_fries
Well-Known Member
I still think the gasoline & snake milk teething blend is better. Just an opinion. :shh:
