false trace?

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aediana

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dian
hi,

i just started making soaps and just finished my third batch. my recipe consists of the following:

Castor oil 60g
Coconut oil 350g
Soybean oil 250g
Palm oil 350g
Olive oil 450g
Lye 206g
Water 555g (divided to green tea & coconut milk 370g and 185g for the lye)
50ml of green tea and white pear fragrance oil

when i mixed the lye with the oils it was fine, but haven’t started using the stick blender yet, just stirring for a while. while stirring i added the green tea/coconut milk water portion. i stopped for about a minute and started stirring again, when i lifted my spatula it had gel like substance so i started mixing with the stick blender thinking that the gel would stick in the pot. it had a thick trace after about 3mins of blending. I blended some more, added the fragrance oil without using the stick blender and then molded.

now it’s bothering me as it shouldn't have traced right away with the high amount of olive oil.right? i’m confused. i've put it in the freezer as i didn't want it to gel because of the coconut milk.

what went wrong? :(
 
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juliab86

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I'm a little confused by your order. Did you say you added your lye with the oils, then afterward you added you tea/coconut milk water mixture?
 
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Obsidian

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Nothing went wrong, thats not a high amount of olive oil. I have one recipe that 61% olive oil and it will trace fast if I mix above 120* F. You generally only get false trace if you soap cool with a recipe with a lot of hard oils/butters.
 

aediana

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i mixed the lye to the oils, after stirring for a few minutes i mixed in the tea/coconut milk mixture :)
 

grayceworks

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i mixed the lye to the oils, after stirring for a few minutes i mixed in the tea/coconut milk mixture :)

Am I reading correctly above, that you reserved the tea/coconut milk to add at trace, but that you still had some water that you mixed the lye with? Or did you add the dry lye directly to the oils? It is a bit confusing the way it is written. :?:

Still pretty new, but wanted to say that most of my recipes have more OO than the 30% you have here, and many of them trace in just a few minutes. All depends on the temp, the other oils, and how much you stir! :)
 
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Skatergirl46

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Oh, good question graceworks, I was just assuming that the lye and water were mixed before adding them to the oils.
 

aediana

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Nothing went wrong, thats not a high amount of olive oil. I have one recipe that 61% olive oil and it will trace fast if I mix above 120* F. You generally only get false trace if you soap cool with a recipe with a lot of hard oils/butters.

Thank you for the response. You are probably right! I didn't put my lye solution on an ice bath as I did with the first two batches. I checked on it this morning and it looks okay, save a bit of gelling (browned some of the tea leaves i put in) but it smells wonderful! first time i used fragrance oil (green tea and white pear) :lol:
 

aediana

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Am I reading correctly above, that you reserved the tea/coconut milk to add at trace, but that you still had some water that you mixed the lye with? Or did you add the dry lye directly to the oils? It is a bit confusing the way it is written. :?:

Still pretty new, but wanted to say that most of my recipes have more OO than the 30% you have here, and many of them trace in just a few minutes. All depends on the temp, the other oils, and how much you stir! :)

Sorry for the confusion :) all of the tea/coconut milk mixture was added a few minutes after stirring in the lye solution. i did not save any for trace. i think its the high temp of the lye that did it (was thinking about it the whole night lol) and kinda cooked the milk when i put it in.
 

aediana

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lye pockets??? :(

Okay, so I cut the soap after about 40hrs in the mold and here's what i got

i have white spots all over the batch, and i think they are lye pockets. :( what do i do now? i don't want to throw them away....



lye pockets.jpg
 

Obsidian

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Was the lye completely dissolved before you mixed it with the oils? Wet your finger and rub it over the white spots lightly and zap test it. If it is lye, you will have to rebatch.
For future reference, you are safest if you use at least the same amount of water to lye for dissolving the lye.
 

aediana

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Was the lye completely dissolved before you mixed it with the oils? Wet your finger and rub it over the white spots lightly and zap test it. If it is lye, you will have to rebatch.
For future reference, you are safest if you use at least the same amount of water to lye for dissolving the lye.
Thanks! I did the zap thing and it ZAPPED BIG TIME! really, ow!

So I went ahead and rebatched it. i couldn't get my hands on the computer as my brother was doing research for school, so i just winged it and drowned the cubed soap in water. will that affect the lather of the finished soap? i noticed it gelled like hot process soap being cooked and now its a bit translucent unlike the original bar. it also increased the volume of the soap a lot, i had to get another mold to fill because of it. i'm guessing that's normal with the amount of water i put in.. is it?
 
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Obsidian

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It shouldn't affect the finished soap but you didn't need that much water, usually a ounce or two is enough. It will probably take longer for it to set up and its possible your bars will shrink some as the excess water evaporates. Was it thick at all or is it pretty fluid?
Going through gel like that is a good thing, means its going through soponafication and the lye is being used up. As long as the chunks broke up and the white spots have been dissolved/cooked down, you'll have a nice usable soap even if it doesn't look the way you wanted.
 

aediana

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It was actually pretty thick, i needed a bit of elbow to stir it. it also almost filled the pot i was using for the rebatch, like it somehow absorbed all the water i added. How long do you think this will set and good for cutting? i did not add anymore fragrance as it still has a strong smell of the FO i put in, would that also dissipate as it cures?

Thank you so much for answering my questions! I'm so glad i joined this forum :) I'm learning a lot!
 

Obsidian

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Ok, that sounds pretty good. I had visions of completely liquid rebatch. Wait until it cools completely then give it a poke, see if its firm. If its soft at all, wait until it firms up. I can usually cut rebatch within a few hours but it really depends on how much water was used.
I've not used that scent before so I can't say how it will behave. Some fade faster then others, some stick around forever.
 

aediana

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LOL that's what i thought when i saw the soap swimming in the pot! i didn't really had the chance to let it cool because it was already pretty firm in the pot, so i just turned off the stove and started scooping them in the mold. i covered it in wax paper to press it down and smoothen it out a little bit..hopefully the fragrance stays, i'm keeping my fingers crossed!
 

judymoody

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Did you zap test them? Your fragrance oil may have riced which can happen with a fragrance that accelerates trace. Ricing is as it sounds, it looks like little grains of rice in your soap. It is harmless.

If they are lye crystals, you can rebatch. As you didn't do a swirl, it shouldn't affect the final appearance that much.
 

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