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The Efficacious Gentleman

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Hi, welcome to you, too!

The answer, though, is this - it depends! You can buy a cheap M&P base or an expensive one. You can use cheap oils and buy in bulk, or you can buy expensive oils at the supermarket.

What is it that you are aiming to do? Give us some sort details and people will be able to suggest the best option for you.
 
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I want to do all natural soaps but right now am working with mp I feel I can't claim them as all natural, but I'm very new to the business and can't afford much. I also want to be able to do more abstract designs and textured tops which I know is hard with mp.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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As you're selling, I would think long and hard about changing to CP, purely because of the learning curve involved. The rule of thumb is that people should wait a year from starting to make CP soap to selling CP as it takes about that long for most people to get used to the processes at a level worthy of having paying customers.

As for "all natural", as there is no real meaning to that phrase, why can't M&P bases work for you? As you seem to use a lot of fragrance oils at the moment, I think that would be a major change right there, regardless if you make the soap yourself or buy a base.
 
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I see what you mean I just feel uncomfortable saying is all natural when I haven't made the base myself. I do use fragrances in some of my soaps, but my "all natural" soaps are just essential oils.
 

shunt2011

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I agree with what TEG has said. If you plan on selling you may want to just start small with making CP and see if you even like it. Again, it takes at least a year before you even want to thing about selling it though. Stick with MP if you want to sell and do CP on the side until you have it figured out and perfected.

As for all natural, there really is no meat behind that term. Anyone can claim their stuff is all natural.

Using FO's however is not natural. Also be careful about making any claims regarding what your soap can do as far as treating psoriasis, acne etc. Read the FDA labeling laws.
 
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Thank you guys, still so new to this. I will play around with cp until I get the hang of it for sure. As for the FOs. If I make my own fragrance is it considered natural? The lilac fragrance I use from the lilacs in my garden that I made into an oil.
 

shunt2011

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Thank you guys, still so new to this. I will play around with cp until I get the hang of it for sure. As for the FOs. If I make my own fragrance is it considered natural? The lilac fragrance I use from the lilacs in my garden that I made into an oil.
It may work for your MP but you are also introducing water via the plant which in turn may cause mold. The scent would not survive CP. Most ingredients other than EO's & FO's don't carry much over in CP. Even some of those fade to nothing.

Since you are already selling MP you really need to be careful of the the claims on your ETSY and facebook. Also, be sure you are labeling your products correctly.
 
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I extract the fragrance with a carrier oil that has no fragrance like sunflower oil.

I'm not sure if I get what your trying to say about my claims and labeling? Am I doing something wrong?
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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I extract the fragrance with a carrier oil that has no fragrance like sunflower oil.

I'm not sure if I get what your trying to say about my claims and labeling? Am I doing something wrong?
That would be a discussion for elsewhere than the Beginner section of the forum (http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51802), so here is some information from the FDA - http://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/guidanceregulation/lawsregulations/ucm074201.htm

Also here is the Business section of the forum. Bear in mind that some of the sections have requirements that need to be met in order to post there. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5
 

hmlove1218

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I believe they're referring to your Facebook page where you make claims that your soap will help with psoriasis, eczema, and other skin conditions. This classifies your soap as a drug on which your product must have gone through testing to be registered as a new drug. You can bet your bottom dollar these tests aren't cheap.

I suggest you visit the FDA website and read up on how to label soaps and cosmetics. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
 

JBot

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I'm not sure if I get what your trying to say about my claims and labeling? Am I doing something wrong?
Yes. "My Skin So Clear soap that I made last week has already done wonders for my psoriasis, but I need to add a few more things! So I'm making an upgraded version of it today! Note: the soap I made last week and the soap I'll be making today have the ability to work on any skin condition from acne to exema!"

This is a perfect example of what's NOT legal to say, unless the FDA has approved your soap as a drug.

Read here: http://blog.mariegale.com/fda-cracking-down-on-cosmetic-product-claims/

If you read through it carefully, you'll see that even if that stuff is in "testimonials" (your own, in the example above) and even if it's on your FB page and not on your label, it's still not legal.
 

IrishLass

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Right here, silly!
Ditto what the good Gent and Shari and everyone above has said.

Besides the huge learning curve with lye-based soaps, another thing to consider is the time it takes to cure the soap and to watch for any anomalies that might pop up in the following weeks and months after making it, since there are certain potential problems that can occur in lye-based soaps that usually don't show their ugly heads until a few weeks or months have gone by. It would be more than a pity to have sold someone a soap that came down with DOS shortly after they bought it, so giving yourself a good year to observe how your formula behaves over time and under certain conditions, and tweaking out all the bugs, etc... is truly essential.

Re: the term 'natural': I agree 100% with the good Gent and Shari. It's such an overused, overblown term that it has become practically meaningless. I completely avoid using it myself, and I'm very skeptical of products that do use it, especially handmade lye-based soap, because I know that the lye used to make it isn't 'natural', not to mention that many of the oils/fats we use in our soap formulas have been chemically extracted. In the US, the term 'natural' is not regulated (as far as I know), so it pretty much a free-for-all situation where it comes down to how one defines 'natural', as is evident to me every time I walk into my grocery store (everybody's using it!).

In regards to labeling correctly, (at least in the US), it is against the law to sell any products with any kind of healing claims printed on the labels or in your advertising. I know that many people still do so anyway, but they are breaking the law and can get into some serious trouble. If you do make healing claims, your product in effect comes under the regulation of the FDA and will be considered as being a drug by them which will need to go through the same vigorous testing as drugs, and will have to be approved by them before you can sell it.


IrishLass :)
 
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Wow! Thank you guys! I didn't know any of this!

I think I'll just stick to making pretty soap and do natural things on the side for now

All posts and listings have been edited. Thank you for your help :)
 
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