Cloudy NaOH mix

[penelopejane]

I think I knew this - I think someone here told me - but I have just proved it.

I just made two mixes of NaOH and salt and CA. One was in a p5 jug that I have only used for lye but have washed with detergent. The other is in a p5 jug that I have used to make batter and washed thoroughly in hot water and detergent.

The mix in the jug that had previously had batter in it has white cloudy stuff floating on top. I will strain it out and for people not aiming for perfection I guess this doesn't make much of a difference but I am sure there is a little NaOH that will be left in the sieve so the amounts won't be exact. Personally, in future, I will either buy another Lye only jug so I can make more than one mix at a time.

I will wash one of the batter jugs in the dishwasher and see if that will bring it back to new.

 

[SaltedFig]

I would guess a hot-wash in the dishwasher should sort it out; it will be interesting to hear whether it does or not.

Thanks for the post - the difference is pretty clear, from your description!

 

[Lin19687]

I bet there are some pitting on the inside of it and the washer will not fix.

 

[penelopejane]

I bet there are some pitting on the inside of it and the washer will not fix.

No, there is no pitting - both jugs are in perfect condition.
Both were thoroughly washes in hot water and detergent and rinsed in hot water.

 

[SoaperForLife]

I get that sometimes and then not other times... I always assumed it had something to do with the lye itself. I use a kitchen strainer lined with a coffee filter to get rid of the white flakes as I don't want or need them in my soap... whatever loss of lye just means a little more superfat.

 

[penelopejane]

Here are the photos:
Please take into the account the markings on the outside of the jugs are where I've written in "permanent Pen" (not permanent when dealing with lye etc) the weight of the jug and other identifying marks I've made when I've been doing two batches at once. Just look at the mix in the bottom of the jugs.
Sorry for the poor lighting.


1 The p5 jug thoroughly washed in hot water with detergent and rinsed in hot water.
Really cloudy.

2. p5 jug which has only been used with lye and water and sometimes salt and CA since new.
Crystal clear.

3. p5 jug washed twice in the dishwasher.
Not cloudy like 1 but there are a lot of floaters in the mix.

 

[SoaperForLife]

I've had it cloudy, clear and with floaters.... other than filtering out the floaters they've all made soap.

 

[Lin19687]

There was a discussion about this, not sure if here or Dish. But I believe if I remember correctly that particles in the air can also leave floaters.
The top pic looks like there is still a bit of oil in it ? The 3rd pic looks like mine on occasion but not as many as that.

I had this issue before and while I do think it was from the lye pot, I also did not cover it when I let it sit outside.
Now, different lye pot, I lightly cover it when outside even though I have the table umbrella open over it. I still occasionally get the floaties.
I do not wash my lye pot, just rinse with water, sometimes hot sometimes just cold just after I make soap - it is still wet in the pot. I don't usually have floaters anymore. But I will look again to see next batch I do

 

[DeeAnna]

Cloudiness, sediment, or floating particles can be sodium carbonate, either from the NaOH itself (sodium carbonate is a normal impurity) or from the reaction of NaOH and CO2 in the air. Or it can be tiny flecks of fat that saponify.

Although this isn't the case for PenelopeJane's situation, cloudiness can also happen when a concentrated NaOH solution gets cold -- about 60 F (20 C) and colder for 50% NaOH solution.

 

[SaltedFig]

I wonder if the plastic itself is starting to break down?
That film looks oily, but I don't believe you would have any vegetables oils left behind after after all of that washing.

I know the PP chemistry jugs I bought over a decade ago came with an expiry date of 2 years, so they do break down eventually.

Now that I think about it, I have some CO2 extracted oil in my refrigerator that I cannot use, because it came shipped in pp #5 and I can smell the plastic in the oil.

It might be that #5 PP plastic can withstand lye solution (without oil) a lot better than the soap batter (with oils).

Stainless might be an alternative to look at - stainless is no good for acidic solutions, but resists lye and soap batter beautifully & only needs buying once.

 

[penelopejane]

It’s possible but the plastic in these jugs is still 100% intact and clear. I have other jugs that have started to degrade - scratches on the surface and roughness.

The photos were taken when the lye was hotter than 50*C. The top one looks oily in the photo but that is just the stick of extra cloudiness as I stirred it just before I took the photo. Maybe it is oil but at the time it just looked really cloudy.

Anyway the jug that has only been used for lye has a crystal clear solution so if I continue to use lye only jugs to mix my lye with my current methods I’ll be happy. I just thought I was losing a lot of lye in the cloudy mix and if I didn’t strain it I was getting swirls or spots in my soap both of which contributed to not perfect soap.

I don’t like SS because I like to look in the side of the jug to see as I’m mixing and pouring the batter. Once mixed in with the batter the NaOH must stay stable even though I mix in plastic jugs or buckets as I don’t get swirls or spots.

It didn’t matter in the soap I made with the cloudy mixe that I didn’t strain as the soap itself is intrinsically spotty. I strained the one in the bottom jug.
I know they usually get more spotty as they cool. The next mix I make in the lye only jug I’ll allow to cool and see if it gets spotty or cloudy.

 

[Lin19687]

Could it be what you are stirring with ? Not sure if they were all stirred with same stick or not (or spoon etc)

 

[penelopejane]

No it's not the spatulas but for what it is worth I used silicone spatulas and I use one for the lye and another for batter.

The photos aren't clear but my description is. It is the mix itself that is cloudy.