Alcohol and Ash - Took a pic

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BakingNana

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Using alcohol to clean ash has been discussed a lot, but I had my camera out so I took a quick pic of a cherry-almond soap I cleaned up today. Now if alcohol could just get rid of the bubbles I got in this batch, life would be perfect.



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Wow, that's impressive! I also thought people sprayed it on top of the batter after filling the mold to prevent ash. Does that work, or is it mainly used to clean off ash after the fact? I have been covering my soap trying to prevent it, but it would be better to use the alcohol in certain situations. Also, are you using the 70% or the 90%? Looks great!!!!
 
Wow bakingnana! Great job!

newbie - I use it after i pour and before I cut to prevent ash, works wonders. sometimes still get a little and just clean it up like bakingnana did. I couldnt be without my alcohol spritz :)
 
newbie said:
Wow, that's impressive! I also thought people sprayed it on top of the batter after filling the mold to prevent ash. Does that work, or is it mainly used to clean off ash after the fact? I have been covering my soap trying to prevent it, but it would be better to use the alcohol in certain situations. Also, are you using the 70% or the 90%? Looks great!!!!

It's 91%. I really don't get ash very often at all. If it's a smooth top batch I cover with plastic wrap. If it's textured, I spray - really saturating it - with the alcohol right after the texture is done, then again before I cut, letting it evaporate before cutting. This one is made with almond milk, so maybe that or the FO or both had something to do with it even though I sprayed like usual. It was in a slab mold; only the top ashed. Definitely the most ash I've ever had. I put on some music, put my feet up, and polished away.
 
Beautiful swirls!!

We had a talk from Kevin Dunn at the soap conference this week about ash.

A couple of things:

Ash is highly soluble in water but not easily soluble with alcohol. I suspect it wasn't actually the alcohol removing the ash but the water content in the alcohol removing the ash.

If you have ash, I think rinsing it with water (instead of alcohol) would be more effective.

Just rambling (in general):

Ash is the result of lye coming in contact with air and forming sodium carbonate. To prevent ash we need to cover with plastic wrap/wax paper or cover with alcohol. I know when I use alcohol after I pour to prevent ash I have to keep spraying it on or it doesn't work. Alcohol works by continually dousing the surface of soap and acting as a barrier against air (I think).

Ash has a harder time forming after saponification is complete (because there is no more active lye to react with air). It is recommended to keep your soap covered until you don't get zap.

This is something that happened to me not that long ago.

I did a swirled slab soap and gelled it on a heating pad. As soon as it was gelled and on it's way to cooling down I uncovered it, doused it with a bit of alcohol for good measure and went to bed. In the morning it was fine. No ash.

I did the same thing the next day (same recipe and all) but I didn't gell it. I uncovered before I went to bed, doused with a bit of alcohol for good measure. Woke up in the morning and it had the thickest layer of ash I had seen. This is because ungelled soap takes longer to saponify.

So in the gelled soap - by the time the last spritz of alcohol dissolved the soap was fully gelled, cooled down a bit and on it's way to being mostly saponified.

The same recipe ungelled probably takes another 24 hours or so to pass the zap test as ungelled soap takes longer to saponify than gelled soap. So since I had uncovered...once the last spritz of alcohol wore off it was an ash party! I should have either made sure it gelled or covered (although that would have messed up my nice swirl).

Just rambling! But his talk really made sense with what I had experienced.
 
Thanks for the comparison photo and the wonderful 'ramblings'!

I always learn so much for this site ... love it and love the way it continues to feed my addiction! lol!
 
agriffin said:
Beautiful swirls!!

We had a talk from Kevin Dunn at the soap conference this week about ash.

A couple of things:

Ash is highly soluble in water but not easily soluble with alcohol. I suspect it wasn't actually the alcohol removing the ash but the water content in the alcohol removing the ash.

If you have ash, I think rinsing it with water (instead of alcohol) would be more effective.

Thanks for the info (and swirl compliment - coming from you, I'm blushing :D ). Sounds like the conference was terrific. Wish I could have gone!

Here's the thing with this one, though...Rinsing it with water didn't budge it. Would have had to scrub it off under the running water. I think if it's not actually the alcohol, then what ever small amount of water is in the alcohol along with a rag got rid of the ash without also getting rid of some of the soap at the same time and changing the surface appearance too much. I didn't want to dull the texture. I personally don't like the way the soap looks after it's been rinsed for what ever reason, or even rubbed with a water-wet rag. Can't sell it...it looks, well, USED! Alcohol and a rag is a much gentler way of getting rid of the ash IMHO.

As far as ash being sodium carbonate...

Two of the sources that I have give their opinions on what ash is differently and in quite a bit of detail.

On page 139 of Soap Maker's Workshop by Dr. Robert S. and Katherine J. McDaniel, they state (in a much more detailed manner than I am paraphrasing here!) that the white surface layer commonly referred to as "ash" that sometimes occurs on soap is most likely soap (not sodium carbonate) in one of four interchangeable crystalline forms. Which type of crystal forms is dependent on a variety of factors, and that the term "ash" rightly refers to sodium carbonate, which forms when EXCESS LYE in the soap is exposed to air. Therefore, most so-called "ash" is not sodium carbonate, but plain old soap in a crystaline form resulting from the unique conditions under which the soap was produced.

Susan Miller Cavitch claims to have had "ash" on her soap tested by a chemist, and the result was not sodium carbonate, but simply soap crystals.

I'm concluding that for a soap that is definitely not lye heavy, ash is plain old soap crystals. As to what environmental factors caused this particular ash -- your guess is as good as mine. It gelled completely, was nicely superfatted and definitely not lye heavy, was saturated with alcohol during the entire process many times, and still had soap crystals form. To top it all off, the "ash" was the worst in the depressions of the texture where the alcohol would even have stayed longer before evaporating between sprayings.

I'm just giving a nod to the soap gods for not "blessing" me with ash of any kind very often!!
 
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