What do you guys think?

[SoapMakingTommy]

Hey guys so i was playing with my oils and soap calc and came up with a formula that feels right.
I wasnt able to add the primrose but im thinking of adding it during trace.

Rice bran oil 25%
Olive oil 20%
Coconut oil 15%
Castor 10%
Shea butter 10%
Avacado oil 10%
S.Almond.o 5%
CocoaButter 5%

This is the quality's of this type of soap:
Hardness 32
Cleansing 10
Condition 64
Bubbly 19
Creamy 31
Iodine 76
INS 121

Just wanted to hear what you guys thought about this bar of soap ?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

What is it for? I don't know what you mean by Primrose (did you mean to expand on that a bit more?) and why are you adding it at trace?

 

[SoapMakingTommy]

What is it for? I don't know what you mean by Primrose (did you mean to expand on that a bit more?) and why are you adding it at trace?

It will be a regular cold processed soap with 5% superfat , for the shower. I read somewhere that you can superfat small amounts of oil by adding it at trace, I might give it a try just a table spoon or two.
The primrose is the oil i want to superfat with. its 10% GLA


What do you think?

O and it says to use 30.4oz water - 10.58oz lye

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I'm personally not a huge fan of putting butters in to soaps, especially in CP as it will be saponifying. Some will of course stay as the SF, though.

Adding something at trace means that it will still be saponified. I can only image that by adding it at trace it won't be quite so fully mixed and so more of it could avoid meeting lye, but to what extent, I don't know. Basically it will still be sat in the mold with raw lye along with your other oils, reacting with lye and becoming soap.

In CP, there is no real way to ensure that a specific oil is not saponified - only in HP by adding it after the saponification stage. I did some searching and some people say that it does work in CP, but I really haven't seen anything that would convince me of that. And the Scietific Chappy also poo-poo'd it and I think he tests things fairly rigourously in his process.

 

[Lin]

If it was avoiding the lye by being in larger quantities not mixed thoroughly you'd also be at a higher risk of rancidity and DOS in those sections. I doubt it would avoid the lye in that manner anyway, unless you didn't mix at all after pouring. Gotta go with HP for a specific superfat. In the future I'm thinking about doing HP for my personal soap for that reason, so I can control the superfat. But right now I've got too many ideas for recipes and active recipes I'm working on.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Now a more helpful answer -

Using:

RBO 35%
OO 30%
CO 15%
Castor 10%
Avocado oil 10%

I get to
Hardness 28
Cleansing 10
Condition 67
Bubbly 19
Creamy 27
Iodine 83
INS 114

Which is not a million miles away from what you had, but without the butters

I think (but I'm not sure) that RBO and OO are basically the same from what they add to the soap.

 

[SoapMakingTommy]

I see thats all very interesting, well just in case i dident write it, this recipe would be for a 5lb batch.
Makes sense, I just thought there would be a slight less chance for it to superfat if i added it later then right away.

I dont know how hot process soap works at all besides it gets cooked, but if i can control the superfat in hp, isnt the risks for rancid and dos pretty similar?

Im only using a very small amount of the primrose olive oil as it is very expensive, a small touch should be enough anyways.
I will be showing you all the results of this soap once it is made.

What i really wanted to know is more about the hardness of the bar and the quality's?
I looked up on the soap calc and the hardness of the bar is mentioned 3 times, hardness, iodine and ins referring to hardness of the soap.

The hardness falls within range but my iodine and ins are off.

Can somone punch these numbers in the soap calc and explain how the iodine and ins effect the quality?

 

[Lin]

The risk of rancidity and DOS would be if you had large portions of oil in sections of the soap as opposed to distributed evenly through the soap. The reason you can control the superfat in HP is because you can add the superfat after of the lye has been used up within the soap. As long as you fully mix in your superfat oil you won't have any pockets of oil to be a risk.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Found a post by the amazing and wonderful DeeAnna -

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=383997&postcount=17

I picture her as a soap-malking wizard.

 

[Obsidian]

I think it sounds like a nice bar. Its something my dry skin would like very much. Its not to terribly soft, many of my recipes are around 35 hardness. Adding primrose at trace won't be any different then adding it at the beginning, lye will take what it wants. If you want to control the SF oil, you have to do HP.
A better idea in my mind is to make a whipped shea body butter with the primrose and rice bran, it would be wonderful.

 

[CaraCara]

Evening primrose is expensive. Although it does have label appeal there is no real guarantee that the beneficial qualities will survive saponification. I would save the luxurious oils for leave-products or use it in HP as a SF.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with the others that using Primrose would be better used in a body butter. Your recipe otherwise looks nice. I love butters in my soaps and generally use both shea and cocoa in my recipes or shea and mango. Give it a try and see how you like it. I also superfat at least 7-10 percent but that's a personal preference.

 

[SoapMakingTommy]

Yes thanks all, I was trying to add the cocoa and shea to make it a bit more harder and add emollient properties.
I will be thinking about what to do with the primrose, but they will be incorporated either way.
I almost forgot, but i might have to recalculate something in. I wanted to add some glycerin into the mix.

Question:
I never used glycerin before and i know its not a fat so i was wondering how does it saponify or react in the soap?
How much would i use, i am thinking i could lower the shea butter maybe to 5% or7% and add5-3% glycerin, how does that sound?
Does glycerin add hardness?

Hey Shunt2011, how do you like your soaps at 7-10% SF compared to 5% or lower?
Maybe i can consider it if i knew what i can expect, just curious?

I will also be adding essential oils + extra goodies.

 

[Lin]

Why do you want to add glycerin? Its made by the saponification process, approximately 25% of the end soap is glycerin. Soap really doesn't need more than that. In fact you could end up with a softer, stickier, soap. Glycerin is a humectant and draws moisture to the soap.

 

[Obsidian]

I wouldn't add any extra glycerin either, there will be plenty in the soap as is. If you do add anymore, a couple teaspoons is all you would want. Too much and you will get soft, sticky soap. Glycerin doesn't saponify.

One thing to keep in mind when adding that much butter is it might create drag. One of my first bars had coco and shea in it and it practically suctions to your body. I would suggest reducing the shea to 5% and adding 5% lard or palm. Lard would be my choice, its makes creamy lather and helps with slip.

 

[SoapMakingTommy]

Why do you want to add glycerin? Its made by the saponification process, approximately 25% of the end soap is glycerin. Soap really doesn't need more than that. In fact you could end up with a softer, stickier, soap. Glycerin is a humectant and draws moisture to the soap.

Wow 25% is such a big number but after thinking about how it is formed in the first place i would have to agree, thanks for making me think, lol:mrgreen:

Now im not too sure if i want to add it, But what will i do with the 10lb of glycerin i already bought?

Obsidian, im trying to keep some of these bars vegan besides goatmilk and honey but i might use lard in the future not anytime soon i do not think.
I do have some sesame seed oil but i thought about allergies and am thinking of just using it for personal batches.
I have some apricot seed oil also, Not sure if i will change the recipe i will punch the numbers in later and see how they look in comparison.

I had some palm but i cant find it in the house, i actually kind of want to stay away from palm with it being used so much.

Today i should be receiving my 5lb wooden mold w cutter :-D
I might make this soap quicker then i thought if i can get the last final details down.

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

 

[shunt2011]

I just prefer a higher superfat as it seems to feel better on my skin. Especially during our brutally cold winter.

 

[green soap]

The glycerin naturally formed is closer to 10% of the final soap weight. It is true that 25% of the molecules are glycerine, but they are much much smaller than the soap molecules resulting from saponification, so your resulting soap is about 90% soap and 10% glycerin - by weight. The exact amount (ranging from 9% to 12%) depends on what oils you are saponifying and what molecular weight these have. It is usually around 10% and that is just the perfect amount IMO.

The advise I have on you recipe is to just try it. It could work for a lot of people. We would find it not cleansing enough for a bath soap, but it might be great for you. Depends on what type of skin you have.

I do use a small amount of butters because I do not use either palm or AOs in my soaps, and cocoa/shea provide the creaminess in the lather that I otherwise don't get with just olive and coconut oils, as per soapcal.net. The disadvantage is that it is more expensive.

The iodine number is from a chemical test of iodine absorption, and it reflects the number of unsaturated bonds you have in your fatty acid profile. The larger iodine number is due to the linoleic and linolenic fatty acids in your soaps, they have lots of unsaturated bonds (absorbing the iodine in the mentioned test), and a large percentage of these fatty acids can result in soap rancidity. Linoleic plus linolenic numbers in soap calc should be lower than 15. If they are higher you can still make the soap and use a little rosemary oleo extract to combat the tendency for it to go rancid or DOS. It is better to formulate for a lower iodine number though.

 

[Obsidian]

You can always use the glycerin to make liquid soap. I also use a tiny bit in lotions or body butter, 10lbs is a lot, will last your forever

 

[Lin]

I got the 25% from this thread http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=41669&highlight=glycerin

Where it says it makes up 25% of the finished soap, and you can calculate the exact amount of glycerin by calculating .7 grams of glycerin for every gram of lye.