Well DRAT! Soap separating...

[PrairieLights]

Never had problems with the base thus far... Separated off one part of the batter, then I added pumpkin, chai powder, honey, and fragrance oil.. and BAM! It curdled. I kept going (like Dory the fish) and it looked like it was ok... put it in the mold... topped it with the batter set aside... and it began to separate like crazy!!! (while the top part "set aside" gelled and looked beautiful). Oh my GOSH. Since the part set aside was fine, it has to be one of the additives. I kept the proportions low out of caution. DANG IT. So I dumped it ALL back in the bowl and stirred.... til my arm cramped... to no avail. I gently added lye water and used my other arm............. it finally seized up so I pushed it into the mold. Smells wonderful. Looks disgusting. OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What happened?!?!? Any thoughts? I am suspicious of the BB frag........roblem:

 

[shunt2011]

Hate when things go wrong. It very well could have been your FO. However, after reading your post I'm wondering why you added more lye water? I would have just put the pot over some heat or threw it in a crockpot and cooked it. I had a WSP FO do that 2 weeks agoi and just put my pot over low heat and stirred it until it came back together. I would just be concerned if you added more lye to it it will be lye heavy.

 

[Dorymae]

I would have left it alone in the mold if I were reasonably sure my measurements were accurate. I had that happen once and the batch actually turned out fine. Somehow the floating oils were reincorporated during the set up time. I did leave it in the mold an extra day because I was afraid it would be soft but it turned out fine - even looked fine. I figured if it wasn't okay I would just rebatch it anyway.

I would also be worried about the extra lye water. You may have lye heavy soap that will need to either be cured a long long time or have to be rebatched.

 

[PrairieLights]

Yeah... I will pH test it and rebatch if I need to - or throw it away. I didn't throw it in the crock pot because I didn't want to burn out the fragrance. It smells wonderful!!! Looks so ugly. :shock: It WAS so pretty. Maybe I will just stuff my pH meter in it and see what it says... :?: ...go from there. I have no idea why I added more lye water......... My brain was encouraging my arms to keep going! I packed up all of my soaping stuff and put it in the closet. :-( I am bummed at the delicious-smelling mess of a loaf..........
I think the only way to know if it is the fragrance oil is to make a small batch and use that only... right? Argh.

 

[newbie]

A ph test won't tell you very well if your soap is lye heavy. You have to make a solution of your soap and have a good ph meter to put in the solution for it to be accurate. Do a zap test instead and that will tell you.

Yes, adding the lye water was an unusual move but in the panic of having our soap go to pieces, sometimes our heads fly out the window. Do you know how much you added? If you do and you have to rebatch, you can add the proper amount of oils then.

Did you take some pics? This sounds like a natural for the Post Your Botched Batches thread! WHich FO did you use?

 

[eucalypta]

then I added pumpkin, chai powder, honey, and fragrance oil.. and BAM! It curdled.

To avoid problems in the future:
1. Powder, any kind, so also clay - are best added when pre-soaked.
Dry they start to absorb water from the soap. Could cause sudden thickening.

2. Honey is notorious for causing
- heating of the soap, sometimes even the forming of a volcano

3. Fragrance oil; some behave badly.

In combination they are a price winner. :evil:
(For those who "never" have problems with any of the above: Not saying that it happens all the time.) :angel:

 

[cmzaha]

Looks like pumpkin was added to one part which would have added in more liquid, any added liquids should be added to the entire batch. If your liquid was already at full amount you would have added in to much and full water/liquid will many time hasten the gel time causing potential overheating and possibly seperation. If your fragrance was Chai or pumpkin spice they can accererate and I know the pumpkin spice heats up and honey heats up. Adding more lye solution was definetly not going to solve the issue and you could still rebatch and add in more oil. You could always rebatch adding in a lot of charcoal and make them charcoal Chai bars. Charcoal bars are great soap

 

[PrairieLights]

Ok - to follow up - I am laughing at myself because i DID go jam the pH meter in the loaf to get a reading. It did seem fine. Zap test fine too. Still...
Yes, used Pumpkin Spice FO..... I am wondering if it was just a combo of that and honey and chai............ When I am feeling brave (and rich) I will do some testing, because in THEORY I like my recipe/idea. In the meantime, what is left is delicious-smelling! I am going to get pH paper and suds it up and test it again to see if I need to really rebatch or if I can leave it alone. Darn it all.

No, no pics. I was panicking. It looked so lovely - and I was so tired - and then it just........................ruined. so sad. so sad, in fact, that i took all of my soaping supplies and plans and put everything away!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have not made CP soap since.................. but I will.

Thank you all so very much for your input!!! I truly honestly appreciate reading every word! YOU ROCK!

 

[DeeAnna]

If the soap ends up being lye heavy but is otherwise fine (well mixed, not weeping weird stuff, etc), just be patient. A reasonably long cure may work wonders to bring the excess lye content down to safe levels.

Check out Anna Marie's thread on extra super lye-heavy Andalusian castile -- it's a fascinating if long story. At her encouragement, a bunch of us made soap using upwards of 40% excess lye (yes, way lots of extra lye!) The soaps were fine after 4-6 weeks of cure. I honestly would not have believed it had I not tried it.

After making two batches worth of this odd recipe, I'm not particularly worried should I ever end up with a "normal" batch of soap that happens to be lye heavy. Not that I'd recommend this to a rank beginner new soaper, but if someone has a bit of a clue about making good soap, this is another useful tool to know about. Just sayin'....

 

[PrairieLights]

I did a paper pH test on it this week (at 4 or more weeks cure time) and it was a solid 8. Smells sooooo good - Guess I will just give it to the kids. I will have to go look up Anne Marie's lye heavy thing.

 

[PrairieLights]

Follow-Up: I heard rumor that the lye company I was using had poor lye... so I tried this recipe again with a new provider of lye and it worked perfectly. So.... it was a lye issue. Grrrr....

 

[reinbeau]

And that lye was purchased from a company that sounds like the first name of the guy who had a great variety show back in the early 60s I'll bet.....

 

[PrairieLights]

If you mean the initials do - yes. (Although I had to ask if that was his first name... Of my 14-year-old... who looked at me like I was crazy...) :roll:

 

[Susie]

I understand not wanting to publicly bash a company. But, there is nothing sue-able about saying, "I bought lye from X company that did not work well. I am contacting them to address it." That is not libel or anything else bad. It is helping out the rest of us avoid those issues.

 

[reinbeau]

The problem are the defenders. And then those who make money from affiliate links.....