True 'Wine' (Transparent) Soap Tests

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Richard Perrine

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I was inspired by this thread:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/wine-soap.71509/

I also wondered what the hoopla was about and found the idea intriguing. I followed some of the tutorials online and found most were using artificial colours and fragrances to get a 'wine' soap. I wondered though and tested out an idea that I had while visiting the above thread. I chose two wines with high sugar content to help with the transparency and lather. Two sweet moscatos. Also an excuse to buy them to indulge. :-D

RESULTS:
1. Color of my bars are close to the colour of the original wine used (red moscato). I asked several family members and it was mixed as some thought it a little 'browner' than the original color while others thought it spot on. Perception :)
2. Though not as sweet, there is clearly a 'wine' fragrance in the bars from the original wine used. There is barely any alcohol residue (aromatic) and some did not smell it at all.

NO additional or artificial colouring or fragrance was added to this soap below. We'll see what happens over the days to see if color changes or fragrance changes. The two dark bars are the wine bars. The smaller, sample-sized bar really shows the transparency and color.

redwine1.jpg

I will try using one of my favorite white moscato wines next. :)
 

Richard Perrine

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Hi all. Kim recently contacted me and it got me thinking about my wine soap tests. :) I have found that the bar, after a couple of days and testing, does not retain its 'sweet' wine odor. The color also turns a more brownish color, but still transparent. I will be testing the following:

Some recommendations that I will be testing:
1. Add equal volume of water to lye to create the solution. DO not mix wine with lye.
2. Blend the soap to trace and allow to set to allow as much of the lye to react with the oils to saponification
3. Add remaining volume of wine into the slurry after the soap has gone through the stages of HP, but only after the sugar water and glycerin have been mixed and heated.
4. Allow the soap mixture to heat for an additional 15-20 min (?). This will help dissipate much of the alcohol, but still utilize the transparent props it contributes to.

Don't know if this makes sense, but in my head it does. :) I am simply trying to minimize the contact that the wine solids have with the lye which creates something a lot leas pleasant after a day or two.
 

Richard Perrine

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I hot process my Wine soap and what I did was that I started with a 50% water discount and added the wine at the end of the cook for the other 50%.
Yes. Sounds great! How much of the original wine color/fragrance do you get? I do not use any coloring or fragrances. I actually discovered another method that could prove to be either eye-opening or a total dud.
 
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Beautiful! You will definitely have to keep us updated on how the fragrance and color holds.

Edit:
Sorry, apparently I didn't look closely above about the fragrance. Still very cool though. I really want to try transparent soap, but I'm a bit chicken right now.
 
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Richard,

From your other thread I noticed that you were having trouble with the integrity of the soap.

Hi Kim. I used the sweetest red Moscato I could find. Barefoot Red Moscato. I must warn you that I continue to experiment with this. It turns out that the integrity of the soap becomes compromised and the nice wine odor does not last. I need to further test and investigate. The key is to minimize the wine with the lye. I have some ideas and will test later.

Is it possible that the water to alcohol ratio is skewed too far towards water, when you use wine as the solvent base?

I am enjoying reading your adventures, but I've been wanting to ask you - does the sugar based solution cause rubberiness/sweating in your soap? I've used high sugar (below the amount that causes too much rubberiness) and the sweating stabilizes, but I haven't gone as high as you are using, so I'm curious :)
 

Richard Perrine

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Hi. I am not certain exactly what is happening. I'm testing a few things at once. I really cook my soap through the stages expected in HP and cook much longer afterwards, so I suspect that excess water content is not an issue. Also, these tests are using my transparent soap recipe which works beautifully for me and does not leave my soaps rubbery nor do I get any sweating. I'm in Utah and it's relatively dry. Would that make a difference? You are in Australia. Humid where you live?

The integrity I speak of is the fragrance and somewhat of the color. I truly believe the reaction with the NaOH is what the problem is. I need to find a way to minimize contact with the wine and unreacted NaOH....or find another process.
 
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Yes, it gets humid (sometimes almost tropical, but mostly Mediterranean type weather). I think that does make a difference to soap sweating.

I've only heard of the rubbery for high sugar soaps, but never experienced it (and you are using the most amount of sugar I know of anyone) - thanks for letting me know that your's aren't rubbery - that's really interesting :)!

For wine soaps, I simmer them down to a syrup. The colour is intensified in the syrup, but most of the alcohol is lost in the process. Maybe that would work for you, if you add it after the cook? I don't know that you could save the scent - I tend to boost it with herbs (a bit like a mulled wine :))
 
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Yes. Sounds great! How much of the original wine color/fragrance do you get? I do not use any coloring or fragrances. I actually discovered another method that could prove to be either eye-opening or a total dud.
Color was a challenge.as soon as it hit the batter it turned gray and I had to add Mica. Quite a bit of the fragrance stayed though.
 

Richard Perrine

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Yes, it gets humid (sometimes almost tropical, but mostly Mediterranean type weather). I think that does make a difference to soap sweating.

I've only heard of the rubbery for high sugar soaps, but never experienced it (and you are using the most amount of sugar I know of anyone) - thanks for letting me know that your's aren't rubbery - that's really interesting :)!

For wine soaps, I simmer them down to a syrup. The colour is intensified in the syrup, but most of the alcohol is lost in the process. Maybe that would work for you, if you add it after the cook? I don't know that you could save the scent - I tend to boost it with herbs (a bit like a mulled wine :))

Hi again. I actually did exactly that... heated down my white moscato to a syrup and then dumped it. Wasn't quite sure what I really wanted to do with it. :) It did turn out to be a lovely, more golden hue. I may revisit this for the color. I also realize that part of the wine scent we smell is necessarily the alcohol content. So, if I vape off all of the alcohol, will it still smell like wine? I have a couple of tests I will conduct tonight. Totally new for me and may revolutionize MY soap making skills...or not.
 

Richard Perrine

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Color was a challenge.as soon as it hit the batter it turned gray and I had to add Mica. Quite a bit of the fragrance stayed though.

I am making transparent soap, so perhaps the color isn't affected as much? Or not as affected b/c of the light color of the batter? I do recall in my early days of baking that mixing some bluish dyes with white batter sometimes created a weird greyish color instead.
 

KimT2au

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Hi again. I actually did exactly that... heated down my white moscato to a syrup and then dumped it. Wasn't quite sure what I really wanted to do with it. :) It did turn out to be a lovely, more golden hue. I may revisit this for the color. I also realize that part of the wine scent we smell is necessarily the alcohol content. So, if I vape off all of the alcohol, will it still smell like wine? I have a couple of tests I will conduct tonight. Totally new for me and may revolutionize MY soap making skills...or not.

I would not have thought that cooking off the alcohol would be a problem with the aroma as you get non-al wines and you also cook with wine and get a lovely aroma. I wait with baited breath for an update on your results, @Richard Perrine
 

Richard Perrine

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I would not have thought that cooking off the alcohol would be a problem with the aroma as you get non-al wines and you also cook with wine and get a lovely aroma. I wait with baited breath for an update on your results, @Richard Perrine

Hmmmm...good point, Kim. I don't remember ever having non-alcoholic wine in the past, but very good point. In fact, I decided to change my approach. You've given me another idea. :)
 
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