To stir or not to stir HP

[max_ime]

I see every detailed explanation of HP says you need to stir it during the cooking. So for what I've done was bringing the soap to a light-med trace and left it to cook without stirring at all until it fully gelled in the crock pot. Then I stirred in my SF oils/melted butters. This final mixture is pourable and my lye solution is 25%. So far my soaps are a bit drying even at 26% SF (yes I used a lot of CO and no CO is not a problem to me in bars I buy), but they did not cure yet. Plenty of people say you can use HP right away! Do they have thick skin or something? Is there something wrong about not stirring it during the cook? I do not see separation. Also I have plenty of tiny air bubbles that are present in my soap. I cook it at 150-170F. Please let me know if you know why. Thank you!

 

[Obsidian]

While HP is safe to use immediately, that just means all the lye is neutralized and the soap is far from being at its best. It still needs a nice long cure like regular CP. I use a lot of salt bars and if I don't cure them at least 8 weeks, they are very drying even though I SF at 20%.

I like to stir during the cook so I know the batter is cooking evenly but many people do not stir. Stirring makes more bubbles in the batter and can increase water evaporation leading to a drier batter.
I use a bit more water then is necessary when I HP to help compensate when is lost when I go poking around in the crock pot. I just can't leave the cooking mess alone.

 

[lsg]

I can't resist stirring either. As Obsidian stated, many people don't stir.

 

[max_ime]

While HP is safe to use immediately, that just means all the lye is neutralized and the soap is far from being at its best. It still needs a nice long cure like regular CP. I use a lot of salt bars and if I don't cure them at least 8 weeks, they are very drying even though I SF at 20%.

I like to stir during the cook so I know the batter is cooking evenly but many people do not stir. Stirring makes more bubbles in the batter and can increase water evaporation leading to a drier batter.
I use a bit more water then is necessary when I HP to help compensate when is lost when I go poking around in the crock pot. I just can't leave the cooking mess alone.

I did not stir thinking that it would remain more liquid, trying to make a nice looking bar. Very rustic is nice too, but my intention is for it to look more like a commercial product. If by leaving it alone it visually goes trough a complete gel, doesn't that mean it's cooked sort of evenly?

Can you please tell if the bar is really milder after 4 months compared to 2 months? After how much time does it stop getting milder and gets pretty much stable? Do you cure your non-salt bars for just as long for them to feel mild?

thank you so much

 

[Obsidian]

Yes, if it goes through full gel then its cooked thoroughly. I can tell the difference between 4 month and two month, in fact I can tell a difference between 6 weeks and 8 weeks, especially with a salt bar.

I generally cure my non salt bars for 6 weeks but I've used and given them away at 4 weeks. I'm not sure when they stop getting milder. My salt bars are even better at 8 months then a 2 or even 6 months so I guess they change for a long time. I have a bar of castile that is over 1.5 years old, I can't tell much difference in it from when I got it at 1 year.

 

[max_ime]

the soap works in mysterious ways, I wonder why olive oil soap take forever to cure, just made these 2 batches this last weekend :

1: CO 44.9%
Palm 26%
Avocado (clear) 13%
Hemp 6%
Jojoba 5.1%
Cocoa Butter 5%
Lye lack is 26% (SF)

2: Olive 33%
palm 26%
CO 11.9%
Avocado 13%
hemp 6%
Jojoba 5.1%
Cocoa Butter 5%
Lye lack 16.1%


they re both somewhat drying to skin so far, now I have to wait some 4 weeks a t the very least. I think I went to far on the % SF. Some spots are more translucent looking in the bars. Never had this problem at lower SF. I prefer to call it a lye lack cause that,s really what it is. There is a significant difference in % if you calculate the lye needed to saponify 100% of what s in your soap and then discount from this number in % VS just selecting a % of some oils and decide to not calculate lye for them

 

[IrishLass]

I'm one of the non-stirrers- at least up until the end of the cook when the batter is translucent and zap-less and I mix in my colorants and/or scent. Before that, I just let it do its thing and peek in on it every 20 minutes or so to see how its coming along. But that's not to say that there's anything wrong with stirring, mind you. I just choose not to because I've found it to be unnecessary, and if something's unnecessary, you can be sure I'll usually take the easy way out and not bother doing it. lol

In regards to cure- I agree with Obsidian. Although any soap is safe to use if it doesn't 'zap' when you apply the tongue test to it, that doesn't mean it has matured yet to the point of being the best it can be. And that includes HP. I've washed with my 'safe' HP right after cutting to test it out and it felt horrible on my skin- made it feel all tight and dry. Ick! Four weeks down the road, though, it felt awesome!

Some people cure their soaps for 4 weeks, some cure them for 6 weeks, some for 8 weeks, etc.... How long you decide to cure your own soap is really up to you and your own skin (or the skin of those who use your soap).

Keep a bar aside and test it out once a week and write down how it feels on your skin and how it behaves/performs etc... That's something I did early on with my formulas, and I found 4 weeks to be my 'magic number', i.e., the point that I felt my soap had reached its earliest best in all categories (i.e. sudsiness, mildness, hardness, etc..), and also the point at which I wouldn't be ashamed to give it away to someone as a gift.

Although I've found my soap to still get a bit better after those 4 weeks have gone by, the difference isn't so huge to me as to warrant a longer cure before being placed in my 'ready' boxes. I'm usually satisfied with it enough at 4 weeks to call it officially done and take it into the shower with me. Well.....unless it's a Castile, that is. Those are a different animal altogether. Three months is my absolute earliest best for Castile's. lol


IrishLass

 

[max_ime]

IrishLass, would you consider my recipe with 33% olive oil a soap that needs a minimum of more than 4 weeks? Castille to some is 100% olive oil, to others it's vegan soap usually with some olive in there.

Obsidian, are your salt soap taking 8 weeks because they're 100% CO with 20% SF or because they contain a lot of salt?

Thank you for sharing:-D

 

[Obsidian]

Yes, I would say yours need a minimum of 4 weeks. On soap forums, castile is 100% olive oil.

 

[Seawolfe]

I found that I had less of the dry crumbly bits in my soap if I didn't stir, and those bits don't go in the mold, they get smooshed into a wad called the "test ball".

 

[MagicalMysterySoap]

I don't stir either till the very end when it's done cooking and I add my colorants, fo/eo, and sf. My soap batter is more fluid this way.

 

[IrishLass]

IrishLass, would you consider my recipe with 33% olive oil a soap that needs a minimum of more than 4 weeks? Castille to some is 100% olive oil, to others it's vegan soap usually with some olive in there.

Castile to me is 100% olive oil. I like to let those cure for 3 months at the very minimum.

One of my main formula's has 50% olive oil in it, and it does perfectly fine with a 4 week cure.

HTH!
IrishLass

 

[SilverMaple]

I don't stir until I add colorant/scent, although sometimes I will need to to help it cool, and I can tell with the finished bar that it's not as smooth.

If you're concerned about a smooth pour with HP, add a bit of honey, use beer for the liquid, or add about 2% Sodium Lactate to the soap. Smooth pour that looks nearly identical to CP if you're careful.

I cure my HP soaps at least 2-3 weeks and CP 4-6 minimum. 100% olive oil, even HP, gets a 4-6 month cure. The results are worth the long wait!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I stir I just can't help myself! I try to avoid getting the dry bits from the sides mixed in, but I do like to make sure that it is cooking evenly, too. Maybe I don't need to, but I like to.

I also put some Sodium Lactate in my HP batches to help it keep more fluid.

 

[max_ime]

with a 25% lye solution it's pretty liquid, what % do you guys use?

I wonder if it is possible to achieve a HP without any air bubbles at all, without using beer and honey or even a CP. I think commercial HP is ran through a mill that makes sure there are no bubbles and then the soap is pressed/formed into a bar. I watched a video on you tube that showed the long milling process.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

But aren't the general processes in commercial soaps a lot different, too? I want to sell handmade soap, so I want it to look a bit different than the commercial stuff.

With HP I usually leave it at the default setting on soapcalc, as it will take a lot of juice out in the cook.

 

[max_ime]

very true, but I am just talking about the air bubbles, to me their presence is not a quality. As I am new to soap making I do not know yet how feasible it is to achieve a soap without them.

 

[seven]

you can certainly make hp w/o the air bubbles. just make sure you're on full water and add some SL to keep the batter fluid. it'll be easier to mold.

and don't forget... tap tap tap... or should i say... bang bang BANG that mold!

 

[max_ime]

I did use full water I think. What is full water to you? I used a 25% pure lye ratio 75% water.

I tried cooking the soap around 150F only. Maybe my bubbles are cause by salt or citric acid that I add to my water before I add the lye. For 650g of oils last time I used 6.5 Citric acid and 4gr sea salt. Banging the mold did not help because the mixture is too thick even though it's very pourable, it's still too thick of a gel to let tiny air bubbles out. I think I've been careful with my stick blender as well. I blended continuously until light med trace and I let it cook without stirring