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Tight skin feeling when using CP soap

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Thesdelights

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Q: Is it normal to get that tight feeling on the skin when showering with CP soap?

When Im in the shower my skin start to feel really tight. Once im out and dry my skin feels nice and soft again. Is this normal?
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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It can do. Do you have hard water? I do, so I have to use a chelator to help offset it.

It might also be to do with too much cleansing oils and so on, but it does sound like hard water to me
 

DeeAnna

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What Shari said. More fat does not stop the chemical reaction of soap with the minerals in hard water to create soap scum. The extra fat can combine with the soap scum and clog your drains and stick to your skin. Not to mention soap scum and high superfat both reduce the amount of lather your soap makes.

The best way to reduce soap scum is to prevent this reaction from happening. For the water used for showering, the solution is to use a whole house water softener or a chelator in your soap or both.

For laundry or dish washing or tub baths, a water softener is a good solution. You can also add borax or washing soda (Calgon bath conditioner is washing soda) to the water -- this can be helpful whether or not you use a water softener.
 

Thesdelights

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What Shari said. More fat does not stop the chemical reaction of soap with the minerals in hard water to create soap scum. The extra fat can combine with the soap scum and clog your drains and stick to your skin. Not to mention soap scum and high superfat both reduce the amount of lather your soap makes.

The best way to reduce soap scum is to prevent this reaction from happening. For the water used for showering, the solution is to use a whole house water softener or a chelator in your soap or both.

For laundry or dish washing or tub baths, a water softener is a good solution. You can also add borax or washing soda (Calgon bath conditioner is washing soda) to the water -- this can be helpful whether or not you use a water softener.
I saw from other comments that citric acid can be used in this case. Ill write what I understood. Could you check for me if its right?

E.g.

I have a recipe: 1000 gr of oils + X amount of NaOH
I add 2% citric acid (CA): 0.02•1000= 20 gr CA
10 gr CA neutralize 6.24 gr of NaOH
—> meaning that I need to add ( X gr NaOH + 12,48 gr NaOH)
 

DeeAnna

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Yes, that looks right -- the 12.48 grams NaOH is the amount needed to neutralize the citric acid. That weight would be in addition to the weight of NaOH needed to make the soap.
 

AliOop

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I'm not sure if these are available where you live, but we recently added filters to our shower heads. This was in response to a sudden and dramatic increase in the chlorination of our water; I could smell chlorine whenever I turned on the shower! And we could see and feel the effects in our hair and on our skin.

The filters remove a lot of the minerals, chlorine, and other unwanted substances from our shower water. Our hair is softer and our scalps and skin aren't as flaky. We are also seeing far less buildup on the shower walls.

The filters are very easy to install by unscrewing the shower head where it attaches to the delivery pipe coming out of the shower wall. Then screw on the filter, and attach the shower head to the threads on the end of the filter. The whole installation took less than 10 minutes.

Here is the link to the one we purchased from Home Depot: shower head filter.
 

Jillyb

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We have hard water so I add sodium citrate to my soap its easier than working out the lye conversions for citric acid. 😊
 

Thesdelights

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Tha
I'm not sure if these are available where you live, but we recently added filters to our shower heads. This was in response to a sudden and dramatic increase in the chlorination of our water; I could smell chlorine whenever I turned on the shower! And we could see and feel the effects in our hair and on our skin.

The filters remove a lot of the minerals, chlorine, and other unwanted substances from our shower water. Our hair is softer and our scalps and skin aren't as flaky. We are also seeing far less buildup on the shower walls.

The filters are very easy to install by unscrewing the shower head where it attaches to the delivery pipe coming out of the shower wall. Then screw on the filter, and attach the shower head to the threads on the end of the filter. The whole installation took less than 10 minutes.

Here is the link to the one we purchased from Home Depot: shower head filter.
Yes, that looks right -- the 12.48 grams NaOH is the amount needed to neutralize the citric acid. That weight would be in addition to the weight of NaOH needed to make the soap.
Do I mix the CA with my distilled water and add the lye to this mixture? And then pour this mixture into the oils?
 

AliOop

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Do I mix the CA with my distilled water and add the lye to this mixture? And then pour this mixture into the oils?
correct - make sure it is dissolved well before you add the lye. Any undissolved crystals will show up in your soap.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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We have hard water so I add sodium citrate to my soap its easier than working out the lye conversions for citric acid. 😊
A lot of people have citric acid around the house for cooking - the calculation isn't so terrible that for some people it makes more sense to use the citric acid on hand as well as the sodium hydroxide we have to make sodium citrate as we go.

In fact, sodium citrate isn't always easy to buy for some people
 

The_Phoenix

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Adding to this thread. I need to start adding citric acid to my soap (as a chelator). We have impossibly hard water and though we have a water softener service, four-ish days before they change the canister my skin gets itchy. Could someone confirm the math for me?

I am making a batch using 3,400g of oils, which calls for 472g of NaOH.
The usage for adding CA is 2% of the oil weight.
2% * 3,400 = 68g CA
10g of CA neutralizes 6.24g of NaOH
68/10= 6.8
6.8 * 6.24 = 42g
42g of additional NaOH will need to be added to the recipe to counter the neutralizing effect of the CA.
Total NaOH weight for the recipe above is 472 + 42 = 514

Yes?

Lastly, when do I add the CA?
 

AliOop

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Phoenix, the best summary of how to use CA is on DeeAnna’s blog, Classical Bells. Look under the Soapy Stuff tab and then scroll down to chelators. Am on my phone so not able to easily provide the link, sorry.
 

The_Phoenix

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Phoenix, the best summary of how to use CA is on DeeAnna’s blog, Classical Bells. Look under the Soapy Stuff tab and then scroll down to chelators. Am on my phone so not able to easily provide the link, sorry.
Thank you, @AliOop. I did read her post regarding chelators. But I did not see a reference to usage rate or the math. I think I got the gist of it. I mainly hoped for confirmation that my math above is correct.
 

The_Phoenix

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Nevermind! I plugged my recipe into SMF, including CA as an additive, and it did the math for me. And according to SMF, my math above was correct. Yay, me!! And yay, SMF!!
 

AliOop

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Thank you, @AliOop. I did read her post regarding chelators. But I did not see a reference to usage rate or the math. I think I got the gist of it. I mainly hoped for confirmation that my math above is correct.
Glad you confirmed the math on SMF! Here is the link to the citric-acid specific page on DeeAnna's site; it's under acids, not chelators, so sorry for sending you to the wrong spot! I've also copied and pasted the info that (hopefully) answers your other questions below:

How should I add citric acid to my soap? Dissolve citric acid powder in about 2 times its weight of water. Stick blend the citric acid mixture into the oils.

How much citric acid powder can be used? The amounts I have seen can range from 1 g to 30 g citric acid powder for every 1,000 g fats (0.1% to 3% ppo). The lowest dosage is recommended by Kevin Dunn, author of the book Scientific Soapmaking, specifically for protecting the soap from DOS (dreaded orange spots, also known as rancidity). Higher dosages -- from 1 to 3% -- will reduce soap scum formation as well as protect against DOS. Use more for hard water, less for soft.

How much citric acid powder is typically used? Many soap makers use 10 g to 20 g citric acid powder for every 1,000 g fats (1% to 2% ppo). Using more than about 2% citric acid may cause a layer of tiny white crystals to form on the outside of your soap as it ages. These citrate crystals will easily wash off and are harmless, but look unsightly. In informal discussions, it appears that a dosage of 1.5% to 2% or less does not cause this issue.
 
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