Superfat Question

[LolaFalana]

Hi guys! I've taken a 2 month break from soaping and I feel like I no longer have the skill My commute to work now gives me absolutely no time to do anything.

I've been watching youtube videos and reading blogs and forums and I'm stuck on one subject. How do you superfat AFTER a recipe is created? Every soap calc I've seen accounts for the %. Are you guys putting it at 0% (like with laundry soap) and then adding the extra oil afterwards? How do you know how much to add? How do you know what oil to use as a superfat?

Thanks in advance!

 

[shunt2011]

Are you doing CP or HP? With CP I just put in the superfat in soapcalc and measure out my oils. No sense adding oils after trace as the lye will take what it wants. As for HP just enter your recipe into soap calc including your superfat and measure out your recipe and hold back the % you want to add after the cook for your superfat. Hope this makes sense..

 

[LolaFalana]

Oh okay I think I understand . HP is what I was referring to. So if I wanted to use coconut oil as my SF. The recipe uses 20% with a superfat of 6%. I would put aside 6% for after and use the 14% in the mix before I add lye? Hope I got that right.

Is superfatting this way in HP better than using all the oils upfront? I'm going to try it tonight but was wondering if there was a real benefit to it.

 

[Obsidian]

Yep, you got it right. SF in HP like this is the better way as you can choose what oil is used for the SF. Personally, I like shea at 5%

 

[LolaFalana]

This is awesome. Thanks guys. I'm currently attempting a soap using pumpkin seed oil, it's my first time using this oil. Hoping this comes out nice.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I did a great hp with pumpkin seed oil!

There was some discussion around the actual calculations required which comes down mainly to terminology - what you are doing in hp is a superfat, which is actually totally different to a cp lye discount.

But aye, if you are making a 1000gram batch, make a lye neutral batch of 950 grams and add in 50grams of a superfat - bippity boppity boo, a 5% superfat.

This oil also makes a nice green that, alas, fades a little

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Okay, just read it all carefully. What you did might work. But only might.

As we know, not all oils need the same amount of lye. If you calculate a recipe and discount the lye, you'll have that % of oils at the end as superfat, but a mix of the oils. In cp. If you hold out a % of an oil in hp, you might make a lye heavy batch as the lye discount is based on all the oils in the mix, not just your co.

The process in my first post is how to give your hp soap a true superfat.

I'll also go more in to why that isn't a lye discount. It is also to do with the different SAP values. When we have a lye neutral 950 gram batch with 50 grams of oil added after the cool, that is indeed a 5% superfat. But it is NOT always a 5% lye discount - the amount of lye used might not have anything to do with the superfat used

 

[LolaFalana]

Okay I didn't use CO like I planned. I actually used the pumpkin seed oil as the SF. So hope it comes out alright. I did 30 ounces of oil. Here's my recipe. I SF at 5%

35% coconut
27% avocado
10% pumpkin
18% grapeseed
5% castor
5% shea

I feel the recipe is really flawed but I really wanted to try out pumpkin seed oil and grapeseed oil, which I've never used before. Can one of you guys help me tweak these? I feel like I need another hard oil but don't know what to you.

Gentleman, I actually came across your blog yesterday while researching pumpkin seed oil. The soap was beautiful. I plan to primarily use the HP method so I need to focus and figure this out.

 

[Obsidian]

I would lower the coconut to 20%, dump the grapeseed completely and add in either palm or lard for a hard oil.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Cool

So, did you do a lye discount on the whole recipe or a superfat on top of a 0% lye-discount recipe? Just making a 5% lye discount recipe up in soapcalc and the keeping some of the oil back until after the cook is not the best option, for the reasons above.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I would lower the coconut to 20%, dump the grapeseed completely and add in either palm or lard for a hard oil.

This!

Also, try lowering the avocado to 20% or 22%, too, putting the balance in to lard.

 

[LolaFalana]

Cool

So, did you do a lye discount on the whole recipe or a superfat on top of a 0% lye-discount recipe? Just making a 5% lye discount recipe up in soapcalc and the keeping some of the oil back until after the cook is not the best option, for the reasons above.

I just did the 5% SF and kept the oil back.... did I ruin it? I will be only sharing this with friends and family until I have enough knowledge to go any further. I read a lot but it's not really until you actually make soap that what everyone says starts making sense to me. Hands on learner :banghead:

I'm going to try an find a mini crockpot at walmart or target. Need to work in as small a batch as possible til this makes sense.

 

[LolaFalana]

This!

Also, try lowering the avocado to 20% or 22%, too, putting the balance in to lard.

Okay why would I lower these? What are the benefits? All the soaps I've made have had those %s for those two oils and I dont have complaints from family about dryness. If I add cocoa butter at 10% would that help balance it out?

Also, would I be able to use cocoa butter instead of lard or palm oil? I'm about to create a shopping list. I have to find a use for grapeseed oil.

 

[Dahila]

grapeseed oil has a shelf life of 6 months, you have no idea how long it was at your supplier. Avocado is good and I use it in soaps but only like 10-15 %. CO is drying when over 20%. Lard make a reallllllly nice and creamy soap. I add cocoa butter to soaps in low percentage and I do like it in cp soap. I am a newbie also maybe made 20 batches or so

 

[LolaFalana]

Really? Well now I really have no use for grapeseed oil. Can I cook with it at least.... I have a 16 ounce bottle. I'll drop my CO to maybe 25% maybe. I love everything about cocoa butter and avocado oil! I think I will try adding Palm oil to my soaps for an additional hard oil. Something about lard doesn't sit well with me. I'll work more on different recipes as time goes on. I'm an extreme newbie as well.

 

[Obsidian]

Use can use grape seed for oil cleansing if thats something you are interested in. I've also used in in small batches of lotion and kept it in the fridge to extend the shelf life. Of course you can cook with it.
Coco butter is a great product but it really doesn't add a ton to soap, especially in large quantities, 10% is plenty. Using palm is a good idea if you are against lard, it will harden your soap and make a gentle creamy lather.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

You didn't ruin (most likely!) if it doesn't zap you or anything.

You were looking for more hard oils, and the difference in 5% of a hard oil taken from softer ones can make all the difference and I find that it makes more a difference in soaps that 5% of a more nurturing oil like avocado.

I also would not use the butters in place of lard for the main recipe - but you could use it as the superfat, if you do the actual superfat method - make a 0-1% lye discount batch, cook it up, add in some Shea butter as the only superfat

 

[reinbeau]

Best way in HP is to set your SF # to zero in the lye calculator, then hand calculate your desired SF and add it in at the end. Works just fine.

 

[LolaFalana]

I will work on a recipe today as well as a shopping list. Also I need to research lye discounts and superfatting. I've never used the lye calc out of the basic formula set.

Soap making is so fun and interesting.

 

[Susie]

Really? Well now I really have no use for grapeseed oil. Can I cook with it at least.... I have a 16 ounce bottle. I'll drop my CO to maybe 25% maybe. I love everything about cocoa butter and avocado oil! I think I will try adding Palm oil to my soaps for an additional hard oil. Something about lard doesn't sit well with me. I'll work more on different recipes as time goes on. I'm an extreme newbie as well.

What you really need to do is get one good, reliable recipe that you like and know you can replicate over and over. Once you have that, you can change one ingredient at the time in small amounts then larger amounts to figure out what each change brings. This is the best way to learn what works for you and what doesn't. Because what works for me may be the worst soap you ever tried. We can help with rules of thumb, but not one of us can tell you what will make you happy.