some NEWBIE questions!

[Sunny]

I have a couple of questions (and I'm sure there will be more... bear with me)!

I was using the MMS lye calc and wondering is there a place to calc in the FO? I didn't see it, if so. Does that calculate into your oil mixture?

What is gelling? (If that is posted somewhere else, just direct me and I can read there )

I have a baking sheet that I wanted to use as a mold but it says "heavyweight steel" .. it does not say stainless steel. Does it have to be stainless steel or is this safe to use? Could I cover it in freezer paper and still use it?

Thanks ahead of time for your help!

 

[IanT]

I was using the MMS lye calc and wondering is there a place to calc in the FO? I didn't see it, if so. Does that calculate into your oil mixture?

I am not familiar with MMS lye calc, when i first started out I used soapcalc, now I have soapmaker 3... the EO or FO that you use is usually subtracted from the amount of your total oil weight... so lets say you were using 100 grams of oil, and wanted 3% of that to be your FO (make sure you post which FO you are using first and see what the reccommended usage percentage is first). you would then add 3 grams of your FO and 97 grams of your oil.... so yes, it does calculate into your oil mixture.

On the flip side....if you wanted to use something like aloe vera or something else that does not saponify, you would take that out of your liquid weights

What is gelling? (If that is posted somewhere else, just direct me and I can read there )

Here is a good explanation of it : (its a little late for me to get scientific being that its pushing 3am
http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/soapg ... lstage.htm

I have a baking sheet that I wanted to use as a mold but it says "heavyweight steel" .. it does not say stainless steel. Does it have to be stainless steel or is this safe to use? Could I cover it in freezer paper and still use it?

I wouldnt use steel as lye tends to eat away at the stainless and/or regular steel... most people use wood, cardboad, pyrex or silicone molds. You can line these molds with wax paper, saran or plastic wrap, or a mold liner, to make it easier to pop the finished soap out of... you could probably get away with using the steel mold if you line it very well...but just be careful. when I first started I used post office flat rate shipping boxes cut open, or milk cartons, and then lined them with saran or wax paper.


hope this helps!

welcome to the forum!

feel free to ask any questions you have!

 

[Fuzled]

Tasha, I like this document as it shows some examples of what Gel looks like. Especially in that first pic. One of the things I learned about gel (I'm a total newbie) from the forums is that it's truly personal preference. You always end up with soap, regardless of gel!

http://southernsoapers.com/images/File/ ... ffects.pdf

 

[IanT]

fuz... thanks for posting that! what an excellent visual!

 

[IanT]

just wanted to clarify I believe I mistakenly mixed up my info on stainless steel... "stainless steel" i believe is okay...anything not stainless steel...not okay... ie regular metal...

sorry for the mixup...

 

[rubyslippers]

... the EO or FO that you use is usually subtracted from the amount of your total oil weight... so lets say you were using 100 grams of oil, and wanted 3% of that to be your FO (make sure you post which FO you are using first and see what the reccommended usage percentage is first). you would then add 3 grams of your FO and 97 grams of your oil.... so yes, it does calculate into your oil mixture.

On the flip side....if you wanted to use something like aloe vera or something else that does not saponify, you would take that out of your liquid weights

IanT thank you for that post! The addition of FO to you soap mixture was something that really confused me when I first started soaping (and I am still a relative newbie) but after much searching I could never find a clear answer to that and have been blindly adding my FO without even considering reduction of my total oils. Got about 40 batches under my belt and luckily have only had 2 flops.

I often spend much time on soapcalc creating a basic recipe that I set aside until a later date to make so I often don't know which FO and colorant I want to use so I never add that info into my recipe until I'm ready to actually make the soap. Just how would you know which oil to decrease for the FO?

 

[IrishLass]

Stay away from anything made with aluminum or tin. They both react explosively bad with lye. Stainless steel is great, though (glad you caught that, Ian ). That's what I use when I'm mixing my soap batter. Stainless is also good for mixing and storing lye solutions in.

IrishLass

 

[IanT]

I usually subtract it from my total oils amount, I work with percentages a lot... so lets say my oils were at a certain percentage of my recipe, I would just use X percent less oil where x is equal to the amount of FO or EO I add, the remaining percentage of oil would then be divided up based on the individual percentages of the oils I use in the recipe... based on the total batch weight.


Is that clear? (I feel like what I am trying to say isnt coming out as clear as I d like it to)

hope that helps!

 

[rubyslippers]

got it! thanks

 

[misty]

oh,oh I have never done that......I've just made my basic recipe, not reducing any oil amts. & added my e.o. just before trace or even during trace, with no soap failures yet. (I don't sell tho).

 

[gekko62]

the EO or FO that you use is usually subtracted from the amount of your total oil weight... so lets say you were using 100 grams of oil, and wanted 3% of that to be your FO (make sure you post which FO you are using first and see what the reccommended usage percentage is first). you would then add 3 grams of your FO and 97 grams of your oil.... so yes, it does calculate into your oil mixture.

Ive always learned FO/EO is added on top of oils not as part of yr calculation(EO/FO are classed as non-saponifiables,or additives)Soapcalc has a section for adding FO amt(top right,under SF) It doesnt recalc oil amt based on FO,you'd have to re-do lye & everything.
:?
http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp

 

[IanT]

the EO or FO that you use is usually subtracted from the amount of your total oil weight... so lets say you were using 100 grams of oil, and wanted 3% of that to be your FO (make sure you post which FO you are using first and see what the reccommended usage percentage is first). you would then add 3 grams of your FO and 97 grams of your oil.... so yes, it does calculate into your oil mixture.

Ive always learned FO/EO is added on top of oils not as part of yr calculation(EO/FO are classed as non-saponifiables,or additives)Soapcalc has a section for adding FO amt(top right,under SF) It doesnt recalc oil amt based on FO,you'd have to re-do lye & everything.
:?
http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp

hmmmmm maybe i am misunderstanding something then?? If so... my apologies, but I would definitely appreciate clarification if thats the case... I dont want to be giving out wrong and/or potentially hazardous information. I use soapmaker3...

 

[gekko62]

the EO or FO that you use is usually subtracted from the amount of your total oil weight... so lets say you were using 100 grams of oil, and wanted 3% of that to be your FO (make sure you post which FO you are using first and see what the reccommended usage percentage is first). you would then add 3 grams of your FO and 97 grams of your oil.... so yes, it does calculate into your oil mixture.

Ive always learned FO/EO is added on top of oils not as part of yr calculation(EO/FO are classed as non-saponifiables,or additives)Soapcalc has a section for adding FO amt(top right,under SF) It doesnt recalc oil amt based on FO,you'd have to re-do lye & everything.
:?
http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp

hmmmmm maybe i am misunderstanding something then?? If so... my apologies, but I would definitely appreciate clarification if thats the case... I dont want to be giving out wrong and/or potentially hazardous information. I use soapmaker3...

Yeah Im all confusticated now too! Mind you I only have to think 'math' & my brain goes into fuzz-out mode. :roll:

 

[gekko62]

...............entirely possible it's all wishful thinking on my part(see above comment on math induced brain fuzz!) :twisted:

 

[IanT]

soapmaker3 has made me lazy, but I do know that sodium carbonate/bicarbonate has been used in the past in conjuction with the formation of soap... its not a substitute for lye or potash so I may have mistated information... I feel that I am getting a bit rusty on this stuff

A major step toward large-scale commercial soapmaking occurred in 1791 when a French chemist, Nicholas Leblanc, patented a process for making soda ash, or sodium carbonate, from common salt. Soda ash is the alkali obtained from ashes that combines with fat to form soap. The Leblanc process yielded quantities of good quality, inexpensive soda ash.




http://www.sdahq.org/cleaning/history/soaphistory2.cfm

http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/pro ... loralkali/


got me all confused on both accounts...

but hey, thats when learning (or re-learning) takes place

 

[Sunny]

wow! I'm so happy that I've gotten so many replies and thank you everyone!

thanks for pointing me in the direction of soapcalc.net, that should be really helpful.

and I think to be safe I will skip the baking sheet for now.. maybe I'll bake some cookies on it instead
and I'll just find some cardboard things to use instead.

thanks for all the help, I can't WAIT to get started! I used the coupon code at Peak and got 40% off my FO sampler and I am dying for it to get here.

 

[gekko62]

soapmaker3 has made me lazy, but I do know that sodium carbonate/bicarbonate has been used in the past in conjuction with the formation of soap... its not a substitute for lye or potash so I may have mistated information... I feel that I am getting a bit rusty on this stuff

A major step toward large-scale commercial soapmaking occurred in 1791 when a French chemist, Nicholas Leblanc, patented a process for making soda ash, or sodium carbonate, from common salt. Soda ash is the alkali obtained from ashes that combines with fat to form soap. The Leblanc process yielded quantities of good quality, inexpensive soda ash.




http://www.sdahq.org/cleaning/history/soaphistory2.cfm

http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/pro ... loralkali/


got me all confused on both accounts...

but hey, thats when learning (or re-learning) takes place

For sure Ian. So,sodium carbonate can be used to make soap,but you'd have to use more because its a weaker alkali?Dont understand a lot about how all that would work(will have to go read donniej's experiment in detail)
That caveman article is great.Skipped the equations,but he always puts things in a way I can get my head around. Love their solution to the air pollution problem btw.Thank heavens we've come a ways since then eh? lol.

 

[IanT]

lol precisely...

Im always researching so if you find anything interesting, let me know.. knoweldge is fluid and dynamic...meaning its always changing (either due to me forgetting things or learning new things that invalidate old information)...

 

[carebear]

I am not familiar with MMS lye calc, when i first started out I used soapcalc, now I have soapmaker 3... the EO or FO that you use is usually subtracted from the amount of your total oil weight... so lets say you were using 100 grams of oil, and wanted 3% of that to be your FO (make sure you post which FO you are using first and see what the reccommended usage percentage is first). you would then add 3 grams of your FO and 97 grams of your oil.... so yes, it does calculate into your oil mixture.

hmmm

Traditionally (or rather - typically) your fragrance oil - be it synthetic or an essential oil - is NOT subtracted out from the total weight of soapmaking oils. These oils are not saponifiable. So your batch of soap weighs "soaping oils" + lye + liquid/water + fragrance + any other additives.

doesn't REALLY matter since you are basing your lye calculation on the actual soaping oils, but if we all keep the same conventions it makes discussions a bit more meaningful.

So Ian, nothing actually wrong with doing this, tho your 2# batch would be slightly smaller than my 2# batch. Then again, we use different amounts of water, additives, whatever - so it's all kinda mixed up regardless LOL.

 

[IanT]

lol well thats probably where my mixup came from cause I am certain someone had told me at one point to subtract them out of the oils etc... but at this point, now that I use soapmaker 3 I dont do any calculating, I just plug in what I want and it does the work for me ... Im all for being on the same page

Thanks for the clarification!