Just joined and am a newbie to soap-making

[SpineyNorman]

I recently began soap-making. I go the easy route; cold process. I use a simple recipe I saw on YT: 32 oz cold water, 32 oz Palm Kernel oil flakes, 32 oz coconut oil, and 15 oz lye. I have made three batches that way and they all came out great.
Yesterday, I decided to substitute goat milk for water. As usual, I mixed the three oils in my large bucket. I froze the goat milk and, in another stainless steel bowl, broke up the milk and slowly poured the lye onto it. Using a silicone spatula, I gently stirred it so as not to burn the milk. The mixture remained very cold and it took nearly 30 minutes for the frozen milk chunks to melt.
I slowly poured the milk+lye mixture into the oil bucket and used an immersion blender to blend as I had done previously. The mixture immediately became very thick and I added some pulverized oats as well. This mixture never got hot as it had when using water, though.
After about 15 minutes of mixing, there were still white chunks that looked like palm oil kernel flakes, I guess they never dissolved?
When I realized it would not mix any further, I ladled it into the molds and set it aside overnight.
This morning, I uncovered them and cut one batch into bars. There is a definite odor like lye, but after touching the bars there was no stinging.
The "soap" looks ok. My previous water batches took four weeks to cure, so I guess these will take the same length of time. Should I be concerned about the odor? How do I know the soap is useable? I did not add any fragrances or colorants.
Here are a few photos of the cut batch.
Any help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

 

[dibbles]

Some questions about your recipe. You only listed coconut oil and palm kernel flakes, but said you poured your goat milk/lye solution into three oils.

Did you use a lye calculator or just make the recipe as you found it on YouTube?

Did you try to use the heat transfer method, or did you melt your oils?

 

[lsg]

Welcome to the forum. When trying out something new or different oil combinations, it is best to make a small batch first, just in case the recipe doesn't turn out the way you want it. As dibbles asked, did you run the recipe through a lye calculator? Did you strain the milk/lye solution before pouring it into the oils?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Some questions about your recipe. You only listed coconut oil and palm kernel flakes, but said you poured your goat milk/lye solution into three oils.

Did you use a lye calculator or just make the recipe as you found it on YouTube?

Did you try to use the heat transfer method, or did you melt your oils?

My mistake. I also use 48 oz olive oil. So the total oils I have used are 48oz olive oil, 32oz palm kernel oil flakes, and 32oz coconut oil. I use the recipe posted by the girls on the YouTube channel "Celebrating Appalachia" (see link below). It is very simple and, when I did it using water instead of Goat milk, the soap came out great!
I don't know what the "heat transfer" method is. Regarding the three oils, I poured them into a large bucket; all three at room temp. Of course, the Palm flakes are suspended in the mixture, but I stir it around a good bit before adding the water+lye mixture (or in this most recent case, the goat milk+lye mixture.)

 

[dibbles]

Okay, I don't have time to watch a video right now but I am guessing from your description that you did not melt the coconut oil or PKO flakes. That would be your issue I think. If your PKO didn't melt because the lye solution was too cool, you likely have lye heavy soap on your hands. If you normally add your lye solution to your oils when the lye solution is hot (using water), you have likely had good luck with it melting your oils. That is the heat transfer method.

Touching your soap with your hands won't necessarily tell you if your soap is lye heavy. If you do a zap test you will know.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Correct, my previous batches using cold water + lye, then adding that to the oils, thoroughly melted the palm oil flakes and the entire mixture (olive oil +palm oil flakes+coconut oil+water/lye solution) thickened quickly using the immersion mixer.
How many days should I wait before trying the zap test? I certainly don't want to use my soap if it is going to melt my face off.

 

[AliOop]

You've mentioned both palm oil and palm kernel oil. Those are two very different oils, that require different amounts of lye.

Palm kernel oil (PKO) is almost identical to coconut oil in soap: it is bubbly and extremely cleansing (drying).

Palm oil (PO) doesn't add bubbles, is far less "cleansing" and is used to create a harder bar.

I'm guessing that your recipe should have used PO and not PKO because a bar made with that much CO and PKO combined would be far too cleansing. Even if it were not lye heavy, it would make your skin very dry.

As the others have noted, you need to run every single recipe through a lye calculator, and resize it to be much smaller until you are sure you like it. My addition to those comments is also make sure you aren't mistakenly mixing up PO and PKO, as they require different amounts of lye and will make very different soaps.

The problem with zap-testing this batch is that, due to incomplete mixing, you will have spots that aren't lye-heavy, and spots that are. You either need to grate this up and rebatch it, or toss is out completely.

 

[SpineyNorman]

This is the Palm Kernel Oil flake I used.
This was my first time using goat milk. I had read that freezing the goat milk was recommended to avoid the milk being scorched and discolored when the lye hits it.
The resulting soap I got from the two times I have used this same recipe and method but with water instead of milk has been great; it lathers great, cleans, and washes off without a problem. So the difference and problem here is the goat milk. I guess being a novice I should not have varied from what worked until I got more experience.
I don't know what to do with this batch even if I grate it because it is heavy with lye. I guess I will dump it and just stick with water.
Regarding the lye calculator, what is a "super fat?" (section 4). For section 1; lye purity, shouldn't that number be 100% if you're using pure lye flakes? That is what I use.

 

[AliOop]

According to the video, their recipe is:

32 oz of cold water
32 oz palm oil
32 oz coconut oil
48 oz olive oil
15 oz lye

So, the original recipe called for palm oil, not palm kernel oil. That means the recipe you used wasn't adjusted to determine the correct amount of lye. You must do that any time you change an oil in the recipe. Now I realize the change wasn't intentional on your part, but it goes to show why you must run any recipe through a soap calculator.

The lady in the video recommends using vinegar to address any lye spills on the skin. That is 100% wrong and dangerous! Vinegar will increase the heat of the lye burn and make it worse. That's why the SDS for lye spills or burns calls for cool, running water ONLY.

Back to the recipe, your issue was not using the goat milk per se. The issue was that you didn't melt your solid oils. In the video, she clearly explained that she pre-melted her palm oil in the microwave.

You could choose to melt your hard oils by adding hot lye solution to them; this is called the "heat transfer method." However, especially for a beginner, you really should melt them on the stove, in the microwave, etc. Oils that have a high melt temp, like PKO, will not get fully melted with the heat transfer method. Then you end up with exactly your problem: false trace, and improperly mixed soap.

I'm guessing that in the other batches, you used hot lye solution, which got the oils mostly melted. But that didn't happen this last time because your lye solution was quite cold. Bottom line, just like she showed in the video, you needed to pre-melt the PKO - which was actually supposed to be palm oil. You should also melt the coconut oil if you are using cold lye solution.

With soapmaking, it is really important to follow all of the steps. You can't skip/change things like putting the recipe through a soap calculator, swapping an oil, and or not melting your hard oils - and then expect it to turn out.

I really don't mean to sound harsh, but soapmaking has risks, both during the making and the using of the soap. I'd encourage you to read more about it here, and to watch some basic soapmaking videos from people with more solid knowledge than the person in your video. Try "I Dream in Soap" and "Soaping 101" on Youtube.

 

[SpineyNorman]

According to the video, their recipe is:

32 oz of cold water
32 oz palm oil
32 oz coconut oil
48 oz olive oil
15 oz lye

So, the original recipe called for palm oil, not palm kernel oil. That means the recipe you used wasn't adjusted to determine the correct amount of lye. You must do that any time you change an oil in the recipe. Now I realize the change wasn't intentional on your part, but it goes to show why you must run any recipe through a soap calculator.

The lady in the video recommends using vinegar to address any lye spills on the skin. That is 100% wrong and dangerous! Vinegar will increase the heat of the lye burn and make it worse. That's why the SDS for lye spills or burns calls for cool, running water ONLY.

Back to the recipe, your issue was not using the goat milk per se. The issue was that you didn't melt your solid oils. In the video, she clearly explained that she pre-melted her palm oil in the microwave.

You could choose to melt your hard oils by adding hot lye solution to them; this is called the "heat transfer method." However, especially for a beginner, you really should melt them on the stove, in the microwave, etc. Oils that have a high melt temp, like PKO, will not get fully melted with the heat transfer method. Then you end up with exactly your problem: false trace, and improperly mixed soap.

I'm guessing that in the other batches, you used hot lye solution, which got the oils mostly melted. But that didn't happen this last time because your lye solution was quite cold. Bottom line, you needed to pre-melt the PKO - which was actually supposed to be palm oil.

With soapmaking, it is really important to follow all of the steps. You can't skip/change things like putting the recipe through a soap calculator, swapping an oil, and or not melting your hard oils - and then expect it to turn out.

I really don't mean to sound harsh, but soapmaking has risks, both during the making and the using of the soap. I'd encourage you to read more about it here, and to watch some basic soapmaking videos from people with more solid knowledge than the person in your video. Try "I Dream in Soap" and "Soaping 101" on Youtube.

OK, thanks.
Yes, in my other batches, the olive oil and coconut oil were in a liquid state. The palm kernel oil flakes quickly melted when the hot lye+water mixture was poured into the oil bucket.
I will use Palm Oil (not kernel oil flakes) and melt it as I did the Coconut oil, in my next batch this weekend because I am tossing this goat milk batch.

 

[AliOop]

I'm glad you aren't giving up!

It does sound like you prepared the lye solution correctly with the frozen goat milk. So if you want to try again with that, here are the things to remember:


1. Melt the PO and CO before mixing them thoroughly with the olive oil. I'd get them up to around 150ºF, because they will cool off a lot when you mix them with the OO, followed by the cold lye solution. That will help avoid false trace, like you had last time.

2. Hold off on adding ground oats. Those will be very scrubby/scratchy on the skin. Also, it's good to change one thing at a time when making new recipes.

This new batch made with palm oil should last quite a bit longer than the last batches. That's because PKO and CO are both very water-soluble, i.e., they dissolve quickly during use. The upside is that they create a lot of bubbles. Using goat milk should help with boosting the bubbles but it still isn't likely to be as much as you got with all that PKO. Letting it cure for at least four weeks should help with that, too.

If you'd like to try a smaller batch (highly recommended), here is a scaled-down version at 3% SF:

10oz CO
10oz PO
16oz OO

10oz water (or goat milk)
5oz lye

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

PS - rather than tossing this last batch, consider trying "oven rebatch." You can search for that here on SMF by using the Search function at the top of the page.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'm glad you aren't giving up!

It does sound like you prepared the lye solution correctly with the frozen goat milk. So if you want to try again with that, here are the things to remember:


1. Melt the PO and CO before mixing them thoroughly with the olive oil. I'd get them up to around 150ºF, because they will cool off a lot when you mix them with the OO, followed by the cold lye solution. That will help avoid false trace, like you had last time.

2. Hold off on adding ground oats. Those will be very scrubby/scratchy on the skin. Also, it's good to change one thing at a time when making new recipes.

This new batch made with palm oil should last quite a bit longer than the last batches. That's because PKO and CO are both very water-soluble, i.e., they dissolve quickly during use. The upside is that they create a lot of bubbles. Using goat milk should help with boosting the bubbles but it still isn't likely to be as much as you got with all that PKO. Letting it cure for at least four weeks should help with that, too.

If you'd like to try a smaller batch (highly recommended), here is a scaled-down version at 3% SF:

10oz CO
10oz PO
16oz OO

10oz water (or goat milk)
5oz lye

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

PS - rather than tossing this last batch, consider trying "oven rebatch." You can search for that here on SMF by using the Search function at the top of the page.

Thank you! I will give that smaller batch a try. And you are correct about that Palm Kernel Oil, the soap I made with it is very nice but man, one bar lasts less than 1 week!
I am on a very tight budget, so I cannot afford colorants and fragrances. Actually, I'm not very keen on fragrance in my soap, and I could not care less about its color. I do have a huge Rosemary bush, so would it be difficult to infuse the oil with some of that before making the soap?

 

[AliOop]

You could infuse the OO with some dried rosemary, but the scent won't come through saponification, and the beneficial properties of rosemary will likewise be eaten by the lye monster.

Do you have access to lard, by any chance? If you aren't opposed to using animal fats, lard is often far less expensive than palm oil, and it is a 1:1 swap (same SAP value for lye). Best of all, it makes fantastic soap!

 

[SpineyNorman]

You could infuse the OO with some dried rosemary, but the scent won't come through saponification, and the beneficial properties of rosemary will likewise be eaten by the lye monster.

Do you have access to lard, by any chance? If you aren't opposed to using animal fats, lard is often far less expensive than palm oil, and it is a 1:1 swap (same SAP value for lye). Best of all, it makes fantastic soap!

I'm certain my grocery store, and Walmart, carry lard. I will get some of that and give it a go. I saw a video where someone placed a large bit of fresh-cut rosemary sprigs in their olive oil and let it sit overnight. They strained and then ran the olive oil through cheesecloth and then proceeded to make soap. The resulting soap had a nice mild green color but, as you said, the scent didn't make it.

 

[AliOop]

Great, let us know how it goes with the lard soap. Lard is much slower to trace than PO or PKO, so that should give you more time to get it well-blended.

I'll withhold comment on infusing fresh herbs in the oil rather than dried ... there are definite opinions for and against that. Either way, many botanicals will not retain their color in soap, although you can read about the ones that do here, and here. But I'll hazard a guess that the green color was not from such a short infusion, but rather, was a result of using extra virgin olive oil, which has a naturally green tinge (although the soap cures out to white over time).

 

[SpineyNorman]

I forgot to mention that, a while back, I bought this 1lb. chunk of Hemp Seed Oil soap base. Would this substitute for one of the oils? If not, how best can I use this?

 

[dibbles]

I forgot to mention that, a while back, I bought this 1lb. chunk of Hemp Seed Oil soap base. Would this substitute for one of the oils? If not, how best can I use this?

This is melt and pour soap base. You cannot substitute it for any oil/fat in a recipe. To use it, just melt the base (I use a microwave). Add fragrance and/or color if using and pour into a mold. This type of soap is ready to use right away as it has already been saponified. Search for melt and pour here on the forum, or there are tons of YouTube videos to watch. Bramble Berry, Royalty Soaps and Dean Wilson are a few that come to mind.

 

[SpineyNorman]

This is melt and pour soap base. You cannot substitute it for any oil/fat in a recipe. To use it, just melt the base (I use a microwave). Add fragrance and/or color if using and pour into a mold. This type of soap is ready to use right away as it has already been saponified. Search for melt and pour here on the forum, or there are tons of YouTube videos to watch. Bramble Berry, Royalty Soaps and Dean Wilson are a few that come to mind.

It doesn't look like it would make much soap. I guess it is for those little travel-size bars.

 

[dibbles]

It doesn't look like it would make much soap. I guess it is for those little travel-size bars.

It doesn't say, at least as far as I can see from the pictures, how much it weighs. I think selling a 1 lb. block is pretty common, so that would make 4 4-ounce bars. If you don't have individual cavity molds, you can repurpose yogurt cups or use some other small size plastic containers.

 

[Zing]

Welcome to the Forum and glad you are sticking in there with the learning process. You are getting great tips from smart and talented soapers already. I just want to explain that there's a couple ways to make soap.
- Melt and pour is just that. Melt soap, add colorants and scents, and pour into molds. It's previously created soap and fun to make designs with.
- Cold process soap is creating soap from scratch, adding lye to oils.

I compare melt and pour to playing a song on the piano -- you add your own touch to a composer's tune. Cold process is composing the song. If that makes sense.

In addition to Soaping 101, and I dream in soap, Soap Queen has a lot of helpful web pages and videos for beginners.

When I started, I was intimidated by some online calculators. The one I recommend to beginners is https://www.brambleberry.com/calculator?calcType=lye because there's less text and information on the page. Once I got the process down, I explored more complicated calculators.

Good luck.