Sodium Gluconate

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by cmzaha, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. Jul 20, 2019 #1

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

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    Has anyone soaped with Sodium Gluconate? I usually use Tetrasodium EDTA but decided to add in some SG in soap for my daughter. She nows lives in an area with extremely hard well water. She tells me her hair is a mess and so is her skin. I actually used it in 3 batches and all accelerated, forth batch with only EDTA did not. Of course it could have been the fo's that were new ones. Just curious if any of you have tried it.
     
  2. Jul 20, 2019 #2

    DeeAnna

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    I haven't used it, but there's been some discussion in the past year or two about it --

    Nframe, post 8: "...Well, I made the soap and it worked fine. The addition of the sodium gluconate did not cause anything to happen, it behaved just as it does with EDTA...."
    PenelopeJane, post 34: "...Both times the soap turned grainy in the pot (riced)...."
    https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sodium-gluconate.69601/

    Mysoapyheart, post 7230: She used it, but didn't specifically mention if she had problems with making the soap with SG in it. https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...ave-you-done-today.42556/page-362#post-701070

    General discussion of chelators that includes SG, but no comments on how it works when making soap: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...ioxidants-and-chelating-agents-in-soap.69814/
     
  3. Jul 20, 2019 #3

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

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    :thumbs::thumbs: Thank-you DeeAnna, I did read those postings and was wondering if there was any current info. Of course, I did not test apples to apples but apples to oranges, since I did not use and test with known non-accelerating fragrances. My next to batches will be the same recipe with known non-accelators. Guess I should not test new floral and honey fo's with a new additive. :lol: But what fun is that.
     
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  4. Jul 20, 2019 #4

    Bladesmith

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    I have been wanting to add honey or royal jelly as they contain gluconic acid. Which should produce Sodium Gluconate when you combine it with NaOH.

    Unfortunately, I've not been able to figure out how much gluconic acid is contained in each. And I have a feeling it may not be enough...

    It would probably be more cost effective just to purchase the stuff already processed.

    I've not noticed a big difference in lather when adding citric acid and thought I'd try a different chelator to see if I notice anything. I'm not too concerned with acceleration since I do HP but interested to hear how it goes for you regardless.
     
  5. Jul 20, 2019 #5

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

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    Sodium Gluconate on Ebay food grade. I purchased this one on ebay. https://tinyurl.com/y5yw9s2c

    I just poured another batch using 0.5% Tetrasodium EDTA and 0.3% Sodium Gluconate. My recipe normally moves fast with 46% palm and Shea 10% and it did not seem to move any quicker than normal. I also use masterbatch NaOH with the extra needed liquid as vinegar.
     
  6. Jul 20, 2019 #6

    DeeAnna

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    I think you're the one who is going to be the source of any current info. ;)

    SaltedFig was talking about GLDA a few months back (https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/glda-a-modern-alternative-to-edta.74141/), but it doesn't seem like any of the usual suppliers carry GLDA, while several suppliers carry sodium gluconate.

    What struck me in reading the manufacturer literature is that GLDA is less effective as a chelator compared with EDTA, but (if you utterly believe the manufacturer's data) SG is more effective than EDTA.

    SG also supposedly degrades in the natural environment in a few months, as does GLDA. I'm not sure about the route of degradation, however -- if it degrades, say, just from normal exposure to light or oxygen over time, that could be a problem for a bar of soap that sits on the store shelf for awhile. It's good to know SG tolerates highly alkaline environments. I'll keep digging for more on this aspect.

    Wish I had more for you about how it behaves when making hand made soap or how it performs as a chelator in soap over the long haul.
     
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  7. Jul 21, 2019 #7

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

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    I got on this path when my daughter send me a pic of the product she is using on her hair. It is a dry product which a variety of Chelators. This is what put me on the path and eventually, I want to try formulating a shampoo bar (syndet ;) of course), that might help.
    This is the ingredient list and I wonder where the glucose is coming from. If it is a by product of the Sodium Gluconate or a dry glucose syrup. Any thoughts by chance? This is the site link https://tinyurl.com/y4kzc48n

    I will update in a few months how my new soaps work for soap scum. I still get some in the shower using 0.5% Tetrasodium EDTA so it might be a good experiment

    Glucose, Ascorbic Acid, Sodium Gluconate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Disodium EDTA, Citric Acid, Xanthan Gum, Betaine.
     
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  8. Jul 21, 2019 #8

    DeeAnna

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    Glucose is just a simple sugar and it can be purchased in anhydrous (dry) form similar to table sugar. Dry table sugar (mostly fructose) would be a low-cost sub for the glucose. They're not the same thing, but I don't know if I'd go out of my way to get glucose -- I suspect it's used mainly a filler to carry the other active ingredients.
     
  9. Jul 21, 2019 #9

    cmzaha

    cmzaha

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    thankyou DeeAnna. It is also very sweet. In the late 70's when I had Meningitis I had to drink glucose 3 times a day to help get the fluid off my brain. YUCKY!! Think I will try a fine sugar and not buy the anhydrous glucose, it is quite a bit more expensive than sugar.
     
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  10. Jul 22, 2019 #10

    DeeAnna

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    Glucose -- filler, humectant
    Ascorbic Acid -- antioxidant
    Sodium Gluconate -- chelator, prevents or breaks down soap scum, sequesters (binds up) metals
    Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate -- synthetic detergent, mild cleanser, adds foam, can add thickness
    Disodium EDTA -- chelator, prevents or breaks down soap scum, sequesters (binds up) metals
    Citric Acid -- acid, lowers pH, smooths hair cuticle due to pH reduction
    Xanthan Gum -- thickener (maybe it thickens when the product is added to wet hair?)
    Betaine -- humectant, soothes the skin
     
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  11. Jul 22, 2019 #11

    cmzaha

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    Thankyou DeeAnna.
     
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  12. Jul 23, 2019 #12

    msunnerstood

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    Dang It my somewhat local ace hardware sells SG at a reasonable price and I knew I saw a post about it but there was no signal there and I couldnt look so I didnt buy it. Ill have to stop there on my way to my next appt and grab some
     
  13. Jul 23, 2019 #13

    DeeAnna

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    Ace Hardware sells it? Really? Wow -- I'm surprised. I'll have to look in our local Ace.

    What's it used for in the hardware world -- do you remember any more details about that or maybe a brand name? I searched for sodium gluconate at the Ace website and nada.
     
  14. Jul 23, 2019 #14

    msunnerstood

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    I live out in the Country and it is used to treat Milk Fever in cows. They had it in a powder as well as a premixed solution

    Do you have fleet farm where you live?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  15. Jul 23, 2019 #15

    msunnerstood

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  16. Jul 23, 2019 #16

    DeeAnna

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    I'm in rural northeast Iowa west of Prairie du Chien. There's a TSC in Prairie, and I might check there. The nearest Fleet Farm is in La Crosse, about 1 1/2 hour drive.

    Now that I know what and where to look, I bet I can locate it -- might even ask my vet.

    Thanks for the tip!
     
  17. Jul 23, 2019 #17

    msunnerstood

    msunnerstood

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    I am 50 miles north of La Crosse
     
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  18. Jul 29, 2019 #18

    DeeAnna

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    I'm seeing that milk fever is treated with calcium gluconate, not sodium gluconate, so I'm wondering if what you got is really sodium gluconate. It kind of makes sense to use a calcium based chemical, rather than sodium based, because milk fever is a calcium deficiency in the blood.

    That said, I'm just reporting what I'm reading on the internet -- I haven't read any labels on the medicines for milk fever.
     
  19. Jul 29, 2019 #19

    msunnerstood

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    I was looking at a whole row of items and I am almost positive it was sodium but I have to go that way again And ill check. the only other thing I can think of is I was looking at 2 different products and the milk fever was the other one . Ill let you know
     
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  20. Jul 30, 2019 #20

    penelopejane

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    I’ve used it. It didn’t effect soaping at all. I thought it would be more bubbly than citric acid but it wasn’t. I did an experiment testing it in (made up) hard water with a few additives and CA won. SG was much more expensive and than citric acid so I reverted back to CA.
     
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