OMG! Again i am confused.. after reading the link shared by fuzz-juzz, if i calculate my lye at 3% superfat by selecting only KOH, i get 99 grams of lye to be used.. now my lye 85% pure.so i have to use 15% lye access? That wud be 99×0.15=14.85. So the lye i need in my recipe shud be 99+14.85=113.85g. And water amount to be 113.85×3=341.55 grams? M i correct?
Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?
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How many times in this forum do you read us telling people to go figure out the lye amount by hand? None. Use a good lye calculator, and stick with it.
There is no sense adding more complication to your life. If fuzz-juzz wants to go figure it out, good for her. Not me. Not most people on here. And if you go through these forums, you will see very, very few people recommending that compared to how often you read us telling people to find a good calculator and stick with it.
Also, please note that that person is selling classes and eConsults. It benefits them to make it seem as complicated as possible to sell more classes and consults.
There is no sense adding more complication to your life. If fuzz-juzz wants to go figure it out, good for her. Not me. Not most people on here. And if you go through these forums, you will see very, very few people recommending that compared to how often you read us telling people to find a good calculator and stick with it.
Also, please note that that person is selling classes and eConsults. It benefits them to make it seem as complicated as possible to sell more classes and consults.
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There really is no need to cause a stir, I meant to use it as maybe a double check method when using few lye calculators and getting different lye amount, not as a stand alone method. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.
If yours maths is bad, don't do it. Mine's decent. I had a bit of fun with it today, since realising different lye calculators give different lye amounts.
And of course I won't follow it, if for example I get 500gr of lye and calculator says 250gr.
As I can understand here, some of you guys just "wing it", and I was told that couple of days ago by one of the soapers. Experiment with different KOH purity % (as KOH differs from supplier to supplier) and different lye calculators, neutralisers, etc, until perfect balance is reached. I just don't want to make stabs in the dark forever, I only have limited time and limited supplies.
Shaan, I'm sorry if I confused you, it's maybe better to stick to the lye calculator. I can't say if you are right or wrong, I don't have your full recipe and it wouldn't be wise, I don't want to be flamed further for something I had only best intentions.
If yours maths is bad, don't do it. Mine's decent. I had a bit of fun with it today, since realising different lye calculators give different lye amounts.
And of course I won't follow it, if for example I get 500gr of lye and calculator says 250gr.
As I can understand here, some of you guys just "wing it", and I was told that couple of days ago by one of the soapers. Experiment with different KOH purity % (as KOH differs from supplier to supplier) and different lye calculators, neutralisers, etc, until perfect balance is reached. I just don't want to make stabs in the dark forever, I only have limited time and limited supplies.
Shaan, I'm sorry if I confused you, it's maybe better to stick to the lye calculator. I can't say if you are right or wrong, I don't have your full recipe and it wouldn't be wise, I don't want to be flamed further for something I had only best intentions.
Ah, hey there. Deep calming breath please! It's a gray, snow-dusted Saturday morning here in the landlocked middle of the USA. I'm visiting my favorite thread and hoping to find some fun stuff to lighten my day! In an effort to bridge the gap and return the conversation to a more mellow place, here's my 2 cents worth:
On one hand, I see Susie's point. There are a lot of newish soapers on SMF, many with poor math skills. Like Susie, I try to steer inexperienced people to reliable solutions that don't require a pencil and calculator, even if I know calculator-based ways to solve the problem. So you'll usually see me talking about how to use the SoapCalc or the Summerbeemeadow calc rather than how to figure stuff by hand. Or, what's worse, coding formulas in a spreadsheet! For math-phobic or inexperienced soapers, I think a ready-to-use calc is by far the best choice.
On the other hand, I see Fuzz Juzz' point. I am comfortable with the calculations needed, and I have created and prefer to use my own personal soap calc on Excel so I can tweak every nuance of the recipe calculation process. I don't know that I'd say I "wing it" exactly, because I usually have a science based reason for my tweaks. But I really do get the point of what you're trying to say, FJ -- I'm trying to refine the recipe calculation process to get more reliable or more understandable outcomes. I don't know that my results are any more accurate than if I used SBM or Soapcalc, but my soaping doesn't seem to suffer from my arrogance in preferring my calc to someone else's.
My concern is that, even for me, calculating a recipe by hand will always be more prone to math or calculator error than using a calc, whether it be my own spreadsheet or someone else's calc.
And even if a hand-calculated recipe is mathematically correct, the results STILL depend on my choice of a specific saponification value for the fats and the purity of the lye. Without a chem lab to test every batch of fat for its saponification value and every batch of lye for its purity, we're still at the mercy of the published information with all its variability.
I suspect that most people are going to continue to use Soapcalc or SMB rather than make their own spreadsheet or calculate by hand. I sure hope we can come to some conclusions about these calcs to help people understand the differences and understand whether the differences are important or not.
On one hand, I see Susie's point. There are a lot of newish soapers on SMF, many with poor math skills. Like Susie, I try to steer inexperienced people to reliable solutions that don't require a pencil and calculator, even if I know calculator-based ways to solve the problem. So you'll usually see me talking about how to use the SoapCalc or the Summerbeemeadow calc rather than how to figure stuff by hand. Or, what's worse, coding formulas in a spreadsheet! For math-phobic or inexperienced soapers, I think a ready-to-use calc is by far the best choice.
On the other hand, I see Fuzz Juzz' point. I am comfortable with the calculations needed, and I have created and prefer to use my own personal soap calc on Excel so I can tweak every nuance of the recipe calculation process. I don't know that I'd say I "wing it" exactly, because I usually have a science based reason for my tweaks. But I really do get the point of what you're trying to say, FJ -- I'm trying to refine the recipe calculation process to get more reliable or more understandable outcomes. I don't know that my results are any more accurate than if I used SBM or Soapcalc, but my soaping doesn't seem to suffer from my arrogance in preferring my calc to someone else's.
My concern is that, even for me, calculating a recipe by hand will always be more prone to math or calculator error than using a calc, whether it be my own spreadsheet or someone else's calc.
And even if a hand-calculated recipe is mathematically correct, the results STILL depend on my choice of a specific saponification value for the fats and the purity of the lye. Without a chem lab to test every batch of fat for its saponification value and every batch of lye for its purity, we're still at the mercy of the published information with all its variability.
I suspect that most people are going to continue to use Soapcalc or SMB rather than make their own spreadsheet or calculate by hand. I sure hope we can come to some conclusions about these calcs to help people understand the differences and understand whether the differences are important or not.
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lpstephy85
Well-Known Member
Woo I think I've finally got it. No instant zap from my tongue or the hubbies tongue. Glad I didn't have to use the borax.
Now it is sitting in the hot water off the burner per Irishlass to clarify. Thanks all that helped!
Now it is sitting in the hot water off the burner per Irishlass to clarify. Thanks all that helped!Sorry, I probably should have quoted shaan's post. That is specifically who and what I was replying to. My apologies for the misunderstanding, Fuzz-Juzz!
I was telling shaan, who is NOT ready to use a calculator and a spread sheet to stick with one calculator. She does not need more complication at this stage of her learning process.
And as much as I admire you math types, I am never, ever going to be able to trust my math abilities to the point that I can do without a lye calculator. It just is what it is.
I was telling shaan, who is NOT ready to use a calculator and a spread sheet to stick with one calculator. She does not need more complication at this stage of her learning process.
And as much as I admire you math types, I am never, ever going to be able to trust my math abilities to the point that I can do without a lye calculator. It just is what it is.
lpstephy85
Well-Known Member
No pictures of it but my lather is lackluster. Will it improve over time?
And even with my decent math skills, I am far too absent-minded and fumble fingered to figure a soap recipe by hand and do it right!
Besides, a calc lets me easily play with the numbers -- I like to tweak the fats, superfat, lye concentration, etc. until I like what I see. That's fun!
Besides, a calc lets me easily play with the numbers -- I like to tweak the fats, superfat, lye concentration, etc. until I like what I see. That's fun!
soapgirltami
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I too, love a good soap calc. Can get lost in the world of soaping properties forever.
soapgirltami
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lpstephy85, what does the finished soap look like? From the latest pic, it looks very cloudy, does it still appear that way?
Handmade liquid soap is not overly sudsy. It has lather with some friction, but not a great deal of it.
Hey fuzz , i think i am confused myself and creating all the confusion here..you were just trying to be helpful.. Susie, i have used calculator,but i was trying to achieve accuracy in my calculation, due to 85% lye purity..this is where it all started.. i am being too curious to learn everything quickly.. and i have always got my answers here on SMF.. sorry if i created more confusions.
Shaan- you are OK. It was my not communicating well that caused the issue.
You still need to chose one lye calculator and once you print out the recipe, THEN do your math(write it on the paper) to adjust for the purity of your KOH. Be consistent. If you keep jumping around to different lye calculators, you are going to stay confused. Once you get the hang of making soap with one calculator, then you can adjust your recipes to suit your own tastes. But you need a solid, reliable place to start. If you are more comfortable with SoapCalc, just change the water amount to 3 times your KOH amount. But pick one and stick with it until you know the process thoroughly, and can make a consistently reliable soap time after time. THEN, and only then, will you be ready to try other calculators/doing the math yourself from scratch. Because then you will know if something is going wrong MUCH earlier in the process. And by that time, you will be able to look at a recipe and know what to expect from it.
You still need to chose one lye calculator and once you print out the recipe, THEN do your math(write it on the paper) to adjust for the purity of your KOH. Be consistent. If you keep jumping around to different lye calculators, you are going to stay confused. Once you get the hang of making soap with one calculator, then you can adjust your recipes to suit your own tastes. But you need a solid, reliable place to start. If you are more comfortable with SoapCalc, just change the water amount to 3 times your KOH amount. But pick one and stick with it until you know the process thoroughly, and can make a consistently reliable soap time after time. THEN, and only then, will you be ready to try other calculators/doing the math yourself from scratch. Because then you will know if something is going wrong MUCH earlier in the process. And by that time, you will be able to look at a recipe and know what to expect from it.
Ok got it! But i have one more question, i use coconut oil that is solid in winters and liquid during summers.. i use it for all soaps..and select fractionated coconut oil.. i have one more coconut oil,that is always liquid.. now for calculating any recipe with coconut oil,which one should i select- 76° ,97° or fractionated? May be that is making a difference in my soaps..sorry for another question.
The one that is solid in the winter and liquid in the summer is 76 degree CO, or 92 degree CO. It becomes liquid at 76 or 92 degrees Fahrenheit. The always liquid one is fractionated CO. The 76 and 92 have the same SAP value, so they are interchangeable. But the fractionated CO has a different SAP value. So, it is important to put the correct one into the calculator. The fractionated CO is much more expensive for me to buy, so I stick with the 76F one. I don't have any experience making soap with either of the others, so I can't compare soap qualities for you, sorry.
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FGOriold
Well-Known Member
Based on the pics and knowing that you added extra oils while your paste was cooking, you may have unintentionally superfatted your soap too much (that would give it the cloudy appearance it appears to have). Those excess unsaponified oils MAY affect your overall lather causing it to be depressed some.
CookbookChef
Well-Known Member
lol...yep!! Just got some....and yes, the 6 Ounce bottle of Glycerin I just bought from walmart, did the same thing, poured it out and it weighed 6 ounces exactly...wow, amazing what new batteries will do, that explains why the last 2 batches of soap I had MUCH trouble with....wow, what a difference!!
Thanks Susie for doing that experiment for me just in-case!! That was kind of you indeed
CookbookChef
Well-Known Member
From what I understand, that might or might not actually be the case. I haven't read what Marie Gale's take on this is, but I was just reading the fine print of the actual FDA regs on the FDA.Gov site and there seems to be a little bit of wiggle room on this, for they have a whole section of the regs where they state exemptions to the rule:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=101.105
One of those exemptions relates to substances that are viscous in nature, which would explain why my liquid, pourable honey and agave nectar are labeled specifically by weight as opposed to fl. ounces, even though they are in an obvious fluid state (albeit thick/viscous).
Although the above relates to US food packaging laws, it seems to also be the same for cosmetic labeling (this is also taken from the FDA site in regards to cosmetic products):
Don't know if that helps at all or not, but I just thought I'd post what I found.
IrishLass
Thanks for posting this Irishlass!! That would make alot of sense here as Glycerin is very Thick...like Honey is...hhhhmmmm what an interesting conversation this has been indeed. And yes, found out it WAS my batteries that were bad for sure. Ruined 2 batches of soap....but was actually able to recover from it thru some time and HELP from this forum.
CookbookChef
Well-Known Member
I know FGOroild...we are all just trying to help one another the best we can. I have good intentions, and so do you. A healthy discussion sometimes is what is needed to get to the bottom of a thing. This whole conversation about weights has been educational to say the least....and it all happened over faulty batteries! Yes, my batteries were bad...new ones now have proven that point. Sometimes out of something bad rises up something good. This whole process the last couple of weeks helped me grow as a better soaper. So, yes, thank you for your input indeed, it was much welcomed and appreciated!!
