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Soapcalc question: will I be sorry I did this?

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rparrny

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Playing around with a new recipe with some minor changes. Soap calc has my hardness at 43, conditioning at 52, INS at 156... all numbers I'm fine with. But the cleansing is 23...with a range of 12-22 am I getting into trouble here?
 

Obsidian

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That depends, did you increase your superfat to counter the high cleansing?
 

rparrny

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That depends, did you increase your superfat to counter the high cleansing?
No, and soap calc lists it at 5%. Should I increase that and see what the numbers are??
 

rparrny

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I will clarify that by saying I have never superfatted...I was told that soapcalc does it for you. So I just plug in the oils and go with the numbers. I add all my oils with my lye (with the exception of EOs).
 

lsg

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SoapCalc is automatically set at 5% superfat, but you can increase it. With 100% coconut oil soap, some people set superfat at 20%.
 

not_ally

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The calcs can be way off w/r/t to numbers depending on what the recipe is (eg, based on the numbers for salt bars no one would ever make them.) I go much lower on cleaning w/my mix of oils, usually 10-11% (have dry skin), but some people go much higher (above the max). Are you ok w/posting the formula?
 

Obsidian

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Increasing the SF won't actually change your numbers. The cleansing will still be high but the extra oils in the soap will hopefully counteract that. With my dry skin, I would SF at 10% or even better, redo the recipe until the cleansing is around 15.
 

rparrny

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The calcs can be way off w/r/t to numbers depending on what the recipe is (eg, based on the numbers for salt bars no one would ever make them.) I go much lower on cleaning w/my mix of oils, usually 10-11% (have dry skin), but some people go much higher (above the max). Are you ok w/posting the formula?
Sure:
35% OO
35% CO
20% Shea butter
5% Castor Oil
5% Rosehip Oil

BTW, I was think about adding calendula EO, about an ounce...soap calc doesn't list it so I was gonna treat it like a scent...anyone have any experience with accelerated trace?
 
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not_ally

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The cleansing nos. are coming up so high b/c of the amount of CO. CO causes problems for many b/c of *how* cleansing/stripping it is, it does for me, but I still use it b/c of the bubbles. Just in lower amounts, up to 15%. Most recommendations to new soapers say not to exceed 20%. But some great soapers (Irish Lass) use it at higher amounts, you kind of have to figure out how much your skin can deal with.

That amount of EO sounds quite high, I generally use about .5 oz/ppo oils, unless it is something that is a known irritant (eg, clove), and then much less. I have always just used them as fragrances, though, and never used calendula, or seen a reccd usage rate for it, though.
 

rparrny

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Increasing the SF won't actually change your numbers. The cleansing will still be high but the extra oils in the soap will hopefully counteract that. With my dry skin, I would SF at 10% or even better, redo the recipe until the cleansing is around 15.
If it doesn't change the numbers, how do I SF at 10%, do I take 10% of my total oil weight and add that amount of oil to it? Do I add it after emulsion or trace? Can I SF with Shea butter?

The cleansing nos. are coming up so high b/c of the amount of CO. CO causes problems for many b/c of *how* cleansing/stripping it is, it does for me, but I still use it b/c of the bubbles. Just in lower amounts, up to 15%. Most recommendations to new soapers say not to exceed 20%. But some great soapers (Irish Lass) use it at higher amounts, you kind of have to figure out how much your skin can deal with.

That amount of EO sounds quite high, I generally use about .5 oz/ppo oils, unless it is something that is a known irritant (eg, clove), and then much less. I have always just used them as fragrances, though, and never used calendula, or seen a reccd usage rate for it, though.
Okay, I decreased the CO a bit to 30%, I thought the amount of shea butter would counteract the cleansing...I've used it before and have no issue with my skin which is sensitive but not dry...just old...and have not had a problem. The loaf is nearly 2 pounds hence the 1 ounce EO. Not even sure if the lye will trash the beneficial qualities but was curious to see.
 
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not_ally

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For some reason I am assuming that you are doing CP? If so, just punch 10% into the SF slot on the calc, it will tell you how much lye/oils to use to get the right SF (ie; enough lye to saponify, plus enough oils added, to SF at your required %, w/those specific oils.)

W/CP, you cannot selectively superfat w/any specific oil, the SF oil/s will end up being whatever the lye does not consume from that mix, but you can't control it.
 
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Seawolfe

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For me personally, that high coconut would need to have the superfat upped to at least 8% - you just manually change the 5 to an 8 in the soap calc superfat box (double check its still there on the final recipe page). But everyone is different with regard to that.

I would also argue that that 5% expensive rosehip oil is wasted in a wash off product - I would save that for a balm or body butter.
 

cmzaha

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For me personally, that high coconut would need to have the superfat upped to at least 8% - you just manually change the 5 to an 8 in the soap calc superfat box (double check its still there on the final recipe page). But everyone is different with regard to that.

I would also argue that that 5% expensive rosehip oil is wasted in a wash off product - I would save that for a balm or body butter.
I was just going to same the same about the rosehip oil, I would also save the very expensive chamomile eo for a nice balm, lotion, butter with the rosehip oil. You really will not notice any difference with the rosehip in your soap with the high co, you are just going to do a better job of washing it off:grin:
 

rparrny

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For me personally, that high coconut would need to have the superfat upped to at least 8% - you just manually change the 5 to an 8 in the soap calc superfat box (double check its still there on the final recipe page). But everyone is different with regard to that.

I would also argue that that 5% expensive rosehip oil is wasted in a wash off product - I would save that for a balm or body butter.
Yeah, the rosehip was the experiment, the rest of it had been done before...rosehip can be so caustic I was curious to see what the lye would do to it.
So I SF at 8%.
What a disappointment! This was my first black/white bar...was using black glitter mica that reviews were use a lot less than you think...
So I mix up 1/2 tsp of it in glycerin along with 1/2 white TD not expecting to use it all.
Knowing that my castor oil will accelerate trace, I mix it to emulsion, split the batch after adding my FO (Bay Rum...my first time using a FO) and slowly add the black mica stirring with my spatula...nothing but little black flecks...not even grey! So I add the rest and it looks like a vanilla bean shake.. I mix up the rest of my black mica (about another 1/2 tsp) and more of the same...I get brave a mix with the stick blender and stop when I see it trace.
I hate the color so in attempt to save it, I mix up some matte woodland green mica and add to the vanilla bean mess. Not horrible.
Pour it into my divided mold with the white but now I have half light trace half medium trace...UGH!
Take a chopstick and do the taiwan swirl with just the waves...I didn't cross the length like some do...figured it was screwed up enough.
From the top, it looks okay for my first taiwan swirl, but I have no idea what the differences in trace are gonna do down below.
I am so pissed about the black glitter mica...was it the glycerin? Why didn't it emulsify with the oils??? Not knowing what I did wrong is more upsetting than the outcome itself...
 

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Here's a video on SoapCalc. It's a little long, but he explains it in really good detail.

ETA: he shows the SF part at around 4:30.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNwYNQleDLs[/ame]
 
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not_ally

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I don't think you did anything wrong, per se, with the mica, it just seems like you need more of that particular one, which you now know for the next time! I find that I can use more black mica than AC, that *does* get really black, traces fast, and bleeds into the water/colors the wash cloth once you go above the magic number. I usually mix black mica and AC to try and prevent that, but I am still bad about putting in too much of the mix and getting that stuff sometimes (I like a really solid black, it is hard for me to know when to stop.)

Black is one of the colors that I pre-mix because (a) I like to use it in swirls and (b) know I want it dark, so that if it is not dark enough I can quickly add more (usually, as should be clear from the above, too much :))
 
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rparrny

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I don't think you did anything wrong, per se, with the mica, it just seems like you need more of that particular one, which you now know for the next time! I find that I can use more black mica than AC, that *does* get really black, traces fast, and bleeds into the water/colors the wash cloth once you go above the magic number. I usually mix black mica and AC to try and prevent that, but I am still bad about putting in too much of the mix and getting that stuff sometimes (I like a really solid black, it is hard for me to know when to stop.)

Black is one of the colors that I pre-mix because (a) I like to use it in swirls and (b) know I want it dark, so that if it is not dark enough I can quickly add more (usually, as should be clear from the above, too much :))
All the reviewers said 1/2 tsp in a loaf is too much and I mixed up 1/2 tsp for a 1/2 loaf! It was a free sample so I only got a teaspoons worth. I wanted to avoid the activated charcoal because of some of the drying effects. In a ~1 pound batch (the loaf was 1.8 )how much more of it could I have expected to use?
 

rparrny

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Here's a video on SoapCalc. It's a little long, but he explains it in really good detail.

ETA: he shows the SF part at around 4:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNwYNQleDLs
I loved the video and watched the whole thing thank you....
I now get SF! He explained it in the simplest of terms for my simple mind...
Learned a few things about soap calc that I never knew before...and I've been using it for a couple of years.
Awesome video! Two thumbs up!
 

not_ally

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Actually, I just re-read your original post and take back some of what I said b/c it seems like there were two problems. (1) it did not get dark enough (the part I was talking about above) and (2) it did not get mixed in well enough, ie; why it was flecking rather than mixing in completely.

W/r/t No. 2, with any powdered colorant I mix it up really well w/whatever is called for in a pre-mix (oil/water/glycerin) until it is super smooth, no lumps/dots. Then I mix it into the batter really well again if at all possible (sometime you can't, if it is tracing like a racehorse, eg), but I pretty much always start w/a whisk when adding colors, and keep going w/it until they are completely mixed. Often I never go back to the SB at all. I know some people have great success adding micas directly to the batter - rather than pre-mixing - but I am too cautious about streaking/clumping etc.

As to how much to add, it is really hard to say w/o having used that particular colorant, they vary. Ie; of of the top of my head (and according to your instructions), that seems like more than enough. I don't like those little samples, for that reason, it is so frustrating not to be able to add if your batch needs more. From what you are describing, though - and after whisking until I had no flecks - I probably would add 50% of what you already did, although that seems like a crazy amount w/black when you were at the high end to begin with. And EVERYONE tells you to start light and add, so that is probably terrible advice :)
 

rparrny

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Actually, I just re-read your original post and take back some of what I said b/c it seems like there were two problems. (1) it did not get dark enough (the part I was talking about above) and (2) it did not get mixed in well enough, ie; why it was flecking rather than mixing in completely.

W/r/t No. 2, with any powdered colorant I mix it up really well w/whatever is called for in a pre-mix (oil/water/glycerin) until it is super smooth, no lumps/dots. Then I mix it into the batter really well again if at all possible (sometime you can't, if it is tracing like a racehorse, eg), but I pretty much always start w/a whisk when adding colors, and keep going w/it until they are completely mixed. Often I never go back to the SB at all. I know some people have great success adding micas directly to the batter - rather than pre-mixing - but I am too cautious about streaking/clumping etc.

As to how much to add, it is really hard to say w/o having used that particular colorant, they vary. Ie; of of the top of my head (and according to your instructions), that seems like more than enough. I don't like those little samples, for that reason, it is so frustrating not to be able to add if your batch needs more. From what you are describing, though - and after whisking until I had no flecks - I probably would add 50% of what you already did, although that seems like a crazy amount w/black when you were at the high end to begin with. And EVERYONE tells you to start light and add, so that is probably terrible advice :)
I mixed the mica in glycerin and used my mini mixer until it was blended smooth and then right before adding it I mixed it again just to be sure. It's not like I had lumps in it, it's like each individual grain of mica stood out. I use mica pretty exclusively and I've never had a problem before. I figure a tsp total for my loaf and usually throw half of it away. Then, I too thought it was a piss poor job of mixing, hence why I went back to the stick blender but it did nothing...didn't even turn it grey. Then I thought maybe the rosehip oil or my FO, the only new things I used were causing the problem but the green mica blended as it usually does with the usual amount. Now as it's drying it looks like green with uniform grains of black...doesn't look like lumps...much, much smaller...I have no idea what went wrong here and why only with the black?
 
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