Soap for animals ... and checking in

[Primrose]

Hey guys, long time no forum and long time no soap

Life as it does, gets in the way. I'm still here lurking about but havent been making a lot of soap recently. Been doing a lot of planning though.

hope to get back on the soaping train this weekend. My official launch is going to be at an event December 1st which is pretty amazingly exciting. And I've got a little fundraiser event I'm selling at this weekend ... my first attempt at selling. Eeek!

Anyway thats whats happening with me at the moment. But totally unrelated to the product launch etc. I am wondering about animal/pet soaps and I'm sure its been discussed here before but I cant get the search engine to work for me.

What is the general consensus? I know there is debate over whether lye-based soap is ok for pets because of their pH being a bit different to ours. There is also some EOs that arent animal safe. What I dont know is the details of all of this.

I guess where this is coming from, is that its currently show season for my goats and washing them with wool wash ... I got to wondering if I could make a bar to wash them with. I was thinking the standard fairly gentle lard/tallow, coconut, olive and castor bar with perhaps tea tree, eucalyptus and/or peppermint EO might work out ok?

I would definitely test run it on mine first but if it works and is safe I wouldnt mind giving some as prizes at our shows too. I think exhibitors would like it.

If its a totally useless idea let me know and I'll stick to the wool wash LOL

Here's a baby goat picture just cos he's cute. This is Felix

 

[Obsidian]

General consensus is not to use lye soap on animals, or at least dogs because there natural PH is much lower than even ours. That being said, I have used soap on my dog and I really like it. It removes odors better than pet shampoo and it rinses cleaner.
I don't know what the natural PH of a goat is but I feel that occasional washing with soap would be ok. What I don't know about is what EOs are safe to use. I know tea tree can be toxic to some animals and eucalyptus is really strong. I don't think I would use any of the ones you mentioned.
Lavender would be my choice, it generally considered safe. Personally, I would be more likely to use FO if it must be scented. For my dogs, I use a unscented neem soap.

 

[dibbles]

Good luck on your first event. I hope it all goes well. And also, Felix is really cute !

 

[Primrose]

Thanks Obsidian, I did wonder whether an FO would be safer. I think a light scent would probably be good especially when I'm washing the smelly bucks ...

I know its a contentious issue a bit like shampoo lye/syndet bars. I see people selling dog/horse bars that are just lye soap ... and people saying they use them, and other people saying no dont at all because of the pH deal. I just dont know what to believe tbh

Dibbles - thank you! He's a bit gorgeous isnt he, everyone at shows loves him

 

[BattleGnome]

Most wool washes are syndets. Look up the ingredients of the one you use for comparison. You might be able to get away with PS80 and a mild oil.

If you happen to spin your goat hair you can test your recipe before trying it on your goats. A foot of yarn made with the goat hair should be enough to tell you if the hair felts quickly with your chosen recipe, if it felts then it’s probably not a good idea. If it doesn’t felt then maybe you can use your soap with an acid rinse like they suggest for hair washing.

 

[Primrose]

Good idea, though unfortunately they are dairy goats not fibre goats.

I haven't ventured into syndets yet so maybe I'm just better off continuing to buy the wool wash lol

 

[shunt2011]

No help with your question but dang that little goat is so darn cute.

 

[KimT2au]

I am aware of the arguments for and against washing animals with soap but I make a super mild oat milk soap which is extremely lightly fragranced with lavender oil. As I may have mentioned just a few thousand times before I am involved with fostering dogs and the state of the skin on some of them when they come out of the kennels is awful. I figure I would rather put my mild soap on their skin than the synthetic detergents contained in dog shampoos. It is also necessary to be aware of the dangers of some EOs with animals, which is why I only use lavender oil and then very, very little. From a personal perspective I would not use a FO on my dogs and would rather stick to very small amounts of EOs that are meant to be dog friendly. What oils are safe for goats, I am afraid I am not sure.

Felix sure is darned cute.

 

[shunt2011]

I am aware of the arguments for and against washing animals with soap but I make a super mild oat milk soap which is extremely lightly fragranced with lavender oil. As I may have mentioned just a few thousand times before I am involved with fostering dogs and the state of the skin on some of them when they come out of the kennels is awful. I figure I would rather put my mild soap on their skin than the synthetic detergents contained in dog shampoos. It is also necessary to be aware of the dangers of some EOs with animals, which is why I only use lavender oil and then very, very little. From a personal perspective I would not use a FO on my dogs and would rather stick to very small amounts of EOs that are meant to be dog friendly. What oils are safe for goats, I am afraid I am not sure.

Felix sure is darned cute.

Doesn't matter if you think your soap is mild, it still has a PH of 8.5-11. I asked my vets and they said absolutely not. Regular soap is to harsh on their skin. So, I don't use my soap on my dogs. If you want to risk it that's fine. Synthetic detergents have a mild PH which to me is more important. I use unscented soap.

 

[NsMar42111]

I've been experimenting with an odor reducing bar using activated charcoal, orange EO (citrus cuts smells), anise, and baking soda...however, I don't have a buck (or doe lol) to check it on and I gave away my samples to testers. It does help get garden odors off my hands so perhaps it would work. (side note: Ew. Nothing like dried urine licked into a leg smell..bleh. I don't miss that part of raising goats!). I used to use the dog shampoos on my goats when I had them, with a prewash of baby shampoo for the stinkiest ones. I would think a liquid soap would be much easier to use on them but not sure if charcoal and baking soda would clog a pump. Perhaps it would work if you grated some of the bar into a bottle and added water and shook (or left overnight to dissolve).

That said, the "real" soap has the whole Ph issue, so if its a show goat, I'd consider using some sort of conditioner to put the moisture back in and soothe skin....which if you shave you are probably doing anyway ?

Please please don't be like the crazy goat lady at several shows I went to that would put a spray with glitter on hers though...it gets all over everything LOL.

 

[Primrose]

Hahaha when I showed cattle there were a few that did that. NOT the look I'm going for, rhars for sure!

 

[DeeAnna]

In a major emergency (skunk spray, rolling in something long dead, etc.) I will bathe my dogs with regular soap. Maybe once a year if that. In an emergency.

If I have a choice, however, I prefer EzAll detergent (the kind meant for washing animals). It's marketed specifically for horses, but it works great for other animals to clean and deodorize gently without leaving a strong fragrance on the coat.

There are wool washes and wool scours. I would never use a wool scour on living critters. Scouring products are formulated to be very efficient at stripping fats off wool in preparation for making yarn, etc. The scour I use is harsh on my bare hands, and I can't imagine using it to wash a horse or pet. Maybe a wool "wash" is more gentle, but I don't have experience with that kind of product.

 

[SaltedFig]

... "There are wool washes and wool scours." ...

The term "wool wash" in Australia is used to mean a gentle hand-washing product for pure wool jumpers (pullovers?).
These wool wash products are widely available (eg. most supermarkets carry multiple brands and some knitwear shops market a version for their woollens)

The stripping wash product is called by a different name here ... "fibre scour".
It is a specialty product that isn't particularly common (except in industry, farming and felting circles).

 

[Primrose]

Yup you got it saltedfig. Its for washing woollen clothes and very common for washing horses and livestock. I actually tip Bluo whitening liquid into it. Works great

 

[Hbsmith121]

Yep, that Felix is cute!
How about Castile soap? Would that be more gentle?
Also, I personally wouldn't scent a soap for animals except if I wanted to add Tea Tree oil.

 

[DeeAnna]

Castile soap is still lye-based soap. The same cautions about using lye-based soap also apply to castile (meaning 100% olive oil soap). The assumption that 100% olive oil soap is gentle may be reasonably true for washing most normal skin, but it's not true for washing hair and it's not true for washing sensitive skin.

 

[Primrose]

You dont think castile is gentle on sensitive skin DeeAnna? Would love to know more

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't have sensitive skin, so I don't have an opinion based on personal experience. But I've listened to others here on SMF, and there are a fair number of people who cannot use 100% olive oil soap because it's drying or harsh to their skin. Based on their experience, one cannot assume 100% olive oil soap is a gentle soap for everyone.

I suspect there's a better chance of a 100% lard soap winning the contest for the most gentle soap. IMO, it might work better for more people of all skin types and all ages than a 100% olive oil soap. But lard will never have the cachet of olive oil -- that "piggy" problem, yanno.

 

[shunt2011]

I’m one who dislikes High OO soap. It makes my skin feel tight. Personal choice though.

 

[earlene]

I know, I am a little late responding (I've been away), but Primrose, I was wondering if you have a vet your normally see whom you could talk to about this subject? Out of curiosity, I did some reading and couldn't find a single thing about the pH of goats' skin or even if they have an acid mantle like we do (they probably do because they are mammals, but that's just an assumption on my part, based on no evidence). And there seems to be quite a lot of differing opinion in the goat keeper community about bathing goats, but nowhere did I find any reliable statistics sited as a basis for their opinions.

A vet seems the most reliable source (unless you have goat husbandry textbooks that include such information) as to the pH of goats skin and how lye soap would affect it.