Powdered goat milk vs yogurt in hot process

Discussion in 'Lye-Based Soap Forum' started by megaptera, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. Feb 6, 2020 #1

    megaptera

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    Hot Processors - Can adding powdered goat milk at the end of cook increase fluidity similar to yogurt? I'm up for trying it, but wanted to ask if anyone knew or has tried it. TIA
     
  2. Feb 6, 2020 #2

    Carly B

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    I don't have an answer, but if you wanted to increase fluidity, why not just mix the powdered goat milk in a little water?
     
  3. Feb 8, 2020 #3

    szaza

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    I've never soaped with powdered goat milk, so I can't say for certain. What helps make HP fluid is lactic acid in yoghurt, which you don't have in goat milk powder. If you want to use goat milk, you could try (goat) yoghurt at 1 tbs ppo (I've done that and it works) and add reconstituted goatmilk from the powder you have as the liquid after cook. I wouldn't use goat milk powder as is, because it will probably attract water from your soap and most likely dry your soap instead of making it more fluid (but I've never tried it so can't say for sure)
     
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  4. Feb 8, 2020 #4

    Kcryss

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    Also, when adding milks to HP, be sure the temp of your batter is below 160 or you get to watch it caramelize right before your very eyes. I assume goats milk is the same in this regard as cow's milk?
     
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  5. Feb 8, 2020 #5

    megaptera

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    Ah, I didn't realize powdered goat milk doesn't contain lactic acid. My objective was only to increase fluidity a bit; I'm currently out of yogurt, but have the goat milk, hence my question. Apparently, soured/fermented dairy contains the most lactic acid (which totally makes sense, lol), so I wonder if whey from strained yogurt/cheese would work.

    Many thanks for the responses.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  6. Feb 8, 2020 #6

    szaza

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    That would be an interesting experiment!
     
  7. Feb 8, 2020 #7

    Mobjack Bay

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    I took a quick look at a few research papers and it may be that no lactic acid is produced in the whey from cheese unless bacteria that are responsible for fermentation are added.
     
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  8. Feb 8, 2020 #8

    szaza

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    Hmm now that we're talking about lactic acid, I suddenly remembered this health drink my parents would make me drink sometimes called molkosan
    It's supposed to be high in lactic acid, maybe that would work even better than yoghurt?
    Oh I just found that brewery stores sell 80% lactic acid solutions.. :cool: why is my list of things to try only getting longero_O
     
  9. Feb 8, 2020 #9

    megaptera

    megaptera

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    Thank you all again for the responses. I most likely will NOT try adding powdered goat milk to HP after the cook. :p

    After looking around on the webz, on the subject of lactic acid, I found this
    https://www.ultimatehpsoap.com/post/reader-question-liquid-lactic-acid-in-soap

    I know nothing about the site, so can't comment on reliability or anything, but the author states,

    "[The] philosophy that yogurt only makes soap more fluid because of its lactic acid content is flawed.

    Yogurt consists of anywhere from 80-95% water. This high water concentration is the primary reason it decreases the viscosity of soap when added after the cook."

    Your thoughts?
     
  10. Feb 8, 2020 #10

    Kcryss

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    I think their answer is flawed to some degree. I agree that adding liquid decreases viscosity, but the lactic acid helps as well. I use greek yogurt, so there is far less water added.
     
  11. Feb 8, 2020 #11

    szaza

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    Only adding liquid and not yoghurt doesn't help as much for me as adding both liquid+yoghurt. Adding only yoghurt instead of liquid also doesn't work as well for me as adding both.. there must be some sort of balance I guess?
     
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  12. Feb 8, 2020 #12

    cmzaha

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    A sugar solution will also help.
    As for powdered gm, I think you will find the powder will not dissolve and mix well in hp after trace. You will just end up with dry powder or even little clumps of the gm powder.
     
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  13. Feb 8, 2020 #13

    gloopygloop

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    As far as I understand the person who wrote that blog and associated e books is a chemist and soap maker, I assume they know a bit about all the chemistry which goes on in saponification. I think the quote is very interesting regarding it being the water make up of the yogurt as opposed to the lactic content. To my way of thinking lactic acid is well acidic! and therefore will lower the pH which is controversial. I wouldn't add pure lactic acid without adjusting the lye amount to compensate, but where would the logic be in that? would it actually do something to the batter to improve the flow?
    I have not tried using yoghurt as my HP seems to be fluid enough with the right amount of liquid added but I am curious!
     
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  14. Feb 8, 2020 #14

    szaza

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    I forgot about sugar solution, should try that next time I do HP!

    I agree! Luckily there's only very little lactic acid in a tablespoon of yoghurt and adding a similar amount in the form of pure lactic acid should in theory have the same impact as adding it in the form of yoghurt (assuming it's possible to measure that small amount accurately) it could be interesting to see the effect of pure lactic acid to know if that's the 'real' liquifying factor in yoghurt (rereading my post I realize it does sound like I was about to add a tablespoon of pure lactic acid to my soap..o_O sorry about that!).
    I also think it's possible to get a fluid batter without yoghurt, but you'll need to add more water, which increases the chance of warping.
     
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  15. Feb 9, 2020 #15

    Sony Sasankan

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    Yes, this works as well. I've tried it with whey water drained from straining homemade yogurt. This is the sweet whey water (that tastes kinda nice). I'm not sure about the acid whey water you get from separation of spoiled milk when heated (Cottage cheese I believe its called). These are both different and to make things more confusing, they are talked about interchangeably in different websites. Theoretically, the water from the separated spoiled milk (acid whey) wouldn't work because lactic acid is produced after the bacteria ferments the lactose in milk. Spoilt milk is just starting to spoil and would have a very low concentration of Lactic Acid. Curd / Yogurt on the other hand in out and out fully spoilt milk (fermented), so should have considerably larger concentration of Lactic acid in its water.
     
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  16. Feb 9, 2020 #16

    Complexions

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    I have tried heavy cream (made from powdered heavy cream) that I added my sodium lactate to (instead of adding to my lye water at the beginning) at the end of my cook. I warmed it up some so it wasn't cold adding to hot soap. This worked pretty well.
     
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  17. Feb 9, 2020 #17

    gloopygloop

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    Now that is interesting as I was wanting to try using powdered yoghurt to see if that worked and by the sound of your experiment it may well do?
     
  18. Feb 9, 2020 #18

    GML

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    I made a batch of soap 3 weeks ago that contained only SL and coconut milk (because I was out of yogurt) and while it did make the soap a bit more fluid, I was not able to pour the soap into the mold like I do when I use either yogurt by itself or a yogurt/SL/coconut milk combo.
     
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  19. Feb 10, 2020 #19

    gloopygloop

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    I use only SL & sugar which does seem to give me a reasonable fluidity but would like to try the yoghurt powder just cos I have some but have never used it!
     
  20. Feb 17, 2020 #20

    Complexions

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    Yes, I have used the powdered yogurt the same way. I just don't usually have that on hand like the heavy cream :)
     

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