Oils benefits

[dalsignum]

We all know that every oil has its own characteristics but i have a question "does saponified oils have the same benefits to oils that didn't saponified?"

example.

Castor oil - helps hair growth
Saponified Castor oil - ??????

 

[WeaversPort]

Ooohhh, good question. Thank you for asking! I have no idea but now I'm curious.

 

[Arimara]

I'm leaning on a no. When you add your lye to your oils, the mixture is going through chemical changes as well as physical. Whatever properties an oil has often changes into something else and that us largely dependent on what fatty acids make up the bulk of the oil. That's why saponified coconut oil is grossly different from regular coconut oil. The latter is very beneficial to our skin but the former would dry out our skin horribly.

Let's wait for one of the more scientifically inclined to chime in and correct me as needed. Shall we?

 

[kchaystack]

Short answer - no.

When you react oil with an alkali it becomes a salt of the fatty acids that make up the oil and glycerin. The fatty acid salt is a completely different chemical than the triglyceride it was in the oil.

 

[shunt2011]

I'm with the others, NO, totally different animal once it becomes the salt of fatty acids. I dont' think much of anything really survives the lye monster either. Hence why I hate when people make claims on their soaps.

 

[IrishLass]

Short answer - no.

When you react oil with an alkali it becomes a salt of the fatty acids that make up the oil and glycerin. The fatty acid salt is a completely different chemical than the triglyceride it was in the oil.

Ditto 100% ^^^^.


IrishLass

 

[dixiedragon]

Ditto x 2. For example, coconut oil is very nice on the skin. It is very moisturizing (if a bit greasy) and absorbs quickly. But SAPONIFIED coconut oil is very cleansing and too much can make for a harsh soap.

 

[Susie]

Yep, ditto. (to infinity and beyond!)

This is why making hot process and adding the "special oils" after saponification is so popular. That is the only hope you have of the lye not saponifying your "special" oil and totally negating any possible effects from it.

 

[IrishLass]

Although, even when you do what Susie mentioned above, it's not a 100% sure-clad guarantee that the specific oil you add after saponification will always remain untouched as your sole superfat, due to something called dynamic equililbrium (soap is never static, even when fully cured). See DeeAnna's post here that explains why (read the last 3 paragraphs of her post): http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=394531&postcount=5


IrishLass

 

[penelopejane]

I agree somewhat but different oils behave differently after saponification so some characteristics must remain. Otherwise all soap no matter what oils were used would be the same and they aren't.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...different oils behave differently after saponification so some characteristics must remain. Otherwise all soap no matter what oils were used would be the same..."

I'd say that's not quite the way I look at it. If a rose is a flower and a daisy is a flower, are they both the same flowers? Most people would say "no." Same for the different fats used in soap. They are fats, yes, but they don't all contain the same fatty acids. It's important to look at the fatty acid (FA) profiles of the fats in a given recipe. The FAs in coconut oil are quite different than in olive oil, so these two fats make soap with quite different characteristics.

 

[Susie]

^What she said!

I can tell a bar of soap with over 20% CO from one with less than that without any documentation from the maker.

I can tell a bar with lard in it from one without.

I can tell an all plant based soap from one with animal fats.

All without labels or anything.

Why? The the fatty acids make very different soaps.

 

[penelopejane]

"...different oils behave differently after saponification so some characteristics must remain. Otherwise all soap no matter what oils were used would be the same..."

I'd say that's not quite the way I look at it. If a rose is a flower and a daisy is a flower, are they both the same flowers? Most people would say "no." Same for the different fats used in soap. They are fats, yes, but they don't all contain the same fatty acids. It's important to look at the fatty acid (FA) profiles of the fats in a given recipe. The FAs in coconut oil are quite different than in olive oil, so these two fats make soap with quite different characteristics.

That's what I mean.

Oils have different characteristics, what survives saponification might not be what you get from the pure oil but some of the characteristics remain in the finished soap and make it unique.

The people writing posts 2 - 9 are saying, I think, that lye kills all characteristics of an oil. I don't agree with that.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Not "Kill" - changes. Again, Coconut is the prime example of this. The end result (sodium cocoate) is a world away from coconut oil.

"survive" and "kill" are most likely too misleading. I do not think that in all cases there is something from the fat itself still present in the salt. In some cases there might be. But that doesn't mean that the uniqueness of a saponified oil has to have any real relation to how the oil itself performs, again, CO being a major example of this.

At the end of the day, one cannot just simply look at an oil and think that the properties will be the same when that oil is saponified. To a greater or lesser degree, the salt is not the same as the oil.

 

[RDak]

Isn't that part of the reason why we superfat?

 

[Arimara]

Isn't that part of the reason why we superfat?

Depends on how it's done. You have absolutely no control over what and how much of an oil is left as an oil in the soap if you use CP. The same can't quite be said for HP soap if you add the superfat after cook.

 

[cmzaha]

Isn't that part of the reason why we superfat?

For the most part no. One reason for superfatting is insurance against errors in measuring, quality of lye and variances in sap values so soap does not turn out lye heavy. Others think it makes a milder less stripping soap. I personally do not like superfatted soap, it feels oily to me and I like washing with soap, so I balance the fatty acid profile to make a milder/less stripping soap

 

[kchaystack]

Isn't that part of the reason why we superfat?

No. The soap stays on your skin for less than a minute before you wash it down the drain. Even in a bath, and sitting in the water, your skin just isn't going to absorb things that fast.

Superfat is there so that the end of the soap molecules that bind to oils have something to attach to other than the oils in our skin.

 

[DeeAnna]

Maybe this thought problem will put matters in perspective.

Being a engineer-y kind of geek, let's say I weigh my soap before and after my bathing. I determine the soap weighs 5 grams less per shower. (Based on a 140 g bar of soap, 30 days of use, 1 shower per day, so 140/30 = 4.7 g) Let's also say I take the bar to my soapy science lab and determine the soap is superfatted with a true 10% fat excess. I break out my trusty calculator, pencil, and paper and determine the 5 grams of soap with which I bathed contained a total of 5 X 10/100 = 0.5 grams of fat.

If I were an overly optimistic sort, I might assume every molecule of that fat happens to stick to my skin. Knowing what I do about how soap emulsifies fats to make them water soluble, I know only a fraction of that tiny amount of fat actually sticks to my skin. But I'll stick with the overly-optimistic view that it all sticks.

According to Cornell University, the surface area of my skin is about 1.9 square meters (m2). The amount of fat on my skin is thus 0.5 g / 1.9 m2 = 0.26 g / m2.

A quarter of a gram of fat on 1 square METER -- that's about 1 square YARD for us Americans. (See SaltedFig's photos below for how much cocoa butter weighs 0.26 grams.)

Let me compare this to using my favorite lotion. I use 1-2 tablespoons (0.5-1 ounce or 15-30 grams) of lotion on my skin after showering. The lotion contains 15% fat, so at a minimum I am applying 15 grams X 15 / 100 = 2.25 grams fat to my skin. That is 2.25 / 1.9 = 1.18 g of fat / m2 of skin.

At least 4.6 times more fat ends up on my skin from the lotion than from the soap. Which one is going to make my skin feel more conditioned and soothed?

Bluntly, the idea of superfat doing amazing things to one's skin doesn't hold water. Superfat enough for safety and to ensure the soap is not overly drying to the skin. For the best skin benefit from the fats themselves, however, put the fats in a lotion or balm where your skin can really enjoy them.

 

[SaltedFig]

Visual representation

Approximately 2.25g of Cocoa Butter: