Newbie with Dreams of A Good Castile Recipe

[RBL]

I have zero experience producing any, but soap making has now permeated my nightly dreams. The delicious oils contrasting with the dangers of lye combining to make something so good for my skin is an amazing concept to me. I had to make some, but first, I spent weeks reading how.

I want to make a fairly simple Castile bar using EVOO and Coconut oil. EVOO is overkill, but it's the only inexpensive organic OO I can find. I plan on full water (25% lye concentration) and doing CPOP to gel. I read that gelled high-water bars resist melting in the shower.

SoapCalc gives me:

36.72 oz EVOO (72% to maintain the Castile gentleness and authenticity)
14.28 oz Coconut oil (28% is high, but does 7% super fat and lots of OO help the drying effect?)
7.06 oz Lye (7% super fat)
21.18 oz purified water

No essential oils.

Hardness 34
Cleansing 19
Conditioning 62
Bubbly 19
Creamy 16
Iodine 64
INS 148

Question:

At these levels will the conditioning olive oil balance out the cleansing of coconut, or should I super fat more because of the amount of coconut oil?

 

[dagmar88]

instead of 28% coconut, I'd go for 23% and 5% castor oil.
I would go down on the water, so you can cut your soaps a bit earlier and take in mind they need a good loooong cure.

 

[IrishLass]

I plan on full water (25% lye concentration) and doing CPOP to gel. I read that gelled high-water bars resist melting in the shower.

I don't know that I agree with that. I've found that it really all comes down to how long you allow your soaps to cure. All soaps will melt in the shower eventually, but a well-cured soap will melt the slowest regardless of how much water was used to make it, and/or whether it went through gel or not.

From my own experience with making Castiles and Castile-types, I personally would use much less water than what you are planning. Using full water definitely has its uses for certain situations, such as when you are working with ornery FOs or when you are HPing, but in a Castile-type CP formula without any scent at all, the only thing it'll do is make it so that your soap takes longer to unmold and cut (in spite of gel), and drag out your curing time even longer.

Re: Gel- I gel all my soaps. It makes my soap to set up quicker so as to make unmolding and cutting within 12 hours of pour a breeze, but that is with using a 33% lye solution. Also- it'll still melt very fast in spite of gel if I use it too soon. Speaking from my own Castile experiences, with a full water amount (in spite of gel) it'll take much longer than that to unmold and cut and to cure. Once fully cured, they melt at the same rate as my other fully cured soaps that used less water.

SoapCalc gives me:

36.72 oz EVOO (72% to maintain the Castile gentleness and authenticity)
14.28 oz Coconut oil (28% is high, but does 7% super fat and lots of OO help the drying effect?)

I've made Castile-type formulas like yours with superfats at 5% and also 7%, and can say that 28% CO is perfectly fine. I personally would have no problem with keeping your CO % as is, but it all comes down to personal preference due to people's different skin-types. You'll have to experiment and see what works for your skin type.

Question:

At these levels will the conditioning olive oil balance out the cleansing of coconut, or should I super fat more because of the amount of coconut oil?

They balance out quite nicely for me, but as I said above, not everyone's skin is the same, so you'll just have to try it yourself to find out.


IrishLass

 

[carebear]

That's not technically a castile, unless you are using the very liberal definition that Dr Bronner uses (veggie oils only). The true castile soap is 100% olive oil. Some make a "bastile" which they might call castile - at 95% olive oil.

 

[Guest]

soap calcs default of 38% water

Is 38% too high generally? What is a good standard ratio for water so that soap can be unmolded and cut at 12 hours and then not take a month or two to cure properly?

 

[MyNaturesArt]

I make olive oil soaps for sale in my shop and have a few different ways and outcomes. If you want to use quickly, obviously you can HP it and get it usable real quick, cpop will just insure gel faster than cp, and its not as "chunky"

As carebear stated a true Castille is only olive oil..kinda slimy but super nice after a real good cure, my most popular one is a Bastille however and usable very soon.

75% OO
20% CO
5% Castor

@ 35% Lye concentration

 

[MyNaturesArt]

Re: soap calcs default of 38% water

Is 38% too high generally? What is a good standard ratio for water so that soap can be unmolded and cut at 12 hours and then not take a month or two to cure properly?

ANY castille will take time to cure, you will find that a 2month old castille is totally different from a 6 month or 1 year old bar!!

 

[RBL]

I'm going for a Marseille bar, afterall.

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

There's a lot of love for Castor oil in the soap community. I'll look into using some.

Marseille soap requires 72% OO or palm. My mistake, true Castile is 100% OO. I have a bar of Kiss My Face pure olive and it's a bit slimy. Another bar I have has a lot of coconut oil and I love the bubbles.

This PDF is what convinced me to make high-water gelled soap.

http://cavemanchemistry.com/HsmgTemperature2009.pdf


_
RBL

 

[MyNaturesArt]

Castor is a soapers best friend! LOL

its what gives soap its lovely lather.

 

[carebear]

Re: soap calcs default of 38% water

Is 38% too high generally? What is a good standard ratio for water so that soap can be unmolded and cut at 12 hours and then not take a month or two to cure properly?

ANY castille will take time to cure, you will find that a 2month old castille is totally different from a 6 month or 1 year old bar!!

Actually, any soap takes a month to cure properly. As for unmolding and cutting at 12 hours - well that's dependent on many things.

What's your hurry? Why must it be ready to cut at 12 hours?

 

[carebear]

Castor is a soapers best friend! LOL

its what gives soap its lovely lather.

It can, I believe, support good lather. But I never use it. I've simplified my life quite a bit by working with fewer oils and balancing them. I use castor in lip balm, but no longer in soap.

My castile is 100% olive oil, by the way - but I do soap it with buttermilk.

 

[soapbuddy]

I would do a Bastille; 95% olive oil, 5% castor.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I also like 95% Olive with 5% Castor & CPOPed with a good water discount. Ready to cut after 24 hours (or sooner) and not slimy at all, but silky.

 

[Guest]

No hurry carebear... I don't mind waiting 24 hours or more to unmold. I was just reading accounts of olks here at smf that were unmolding and cutting at 12 hours and wondered if using less water was how they were able to do it.

 

[Traceyann]

I think the unmolding depends on a lot of things, I made a really nice soap with lemon verbena, coloured with paprika and mixed in some poppy seeds......it poured beautifully but was really hard in 6 - 7 hours so I cut it......but generally I dont cut for about 24 hours

 

[JenniferSews]

I make olive oil soaps for sale in my shop and have a few different ways and outcomes. If you want to use quickly, obviously you can HP it and get it usable real quick, cpop will just insure gel faster than cp, and its not as "chunky"

As carebear stated a true Castille is only olive oil..kinda slimy but super nice after a real good cure, my most popular one is a Bastille however and usable very soon.

75% OO
20% CO
5% Castor

@ 35% Lye concentration

This is almost exactly the recipe I use for my olive oil soap. After a good long cure it doesn't have the sliminess I hated from actual castille. It's hard, bubbly and conditioning. Plus it takes no time at all to make with just the three oils and sets up slow enough for you to have plenty of time to play with colors.

 

[SudsyKat]

Just a quick question here - I thought bastille was olive oil and babassu oil. Is that wrong?

 

[newbie]

I think the term "bastile" is short for bastard castile as it's bastardized with other oils, not necessarily only babassu.

 

[soapbuddy]

My Bastile is olive and castor oils.

 

[SudsyKat]

Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the info! I thought the "ba" in bastille was for babassu. Now i know