new soap! PIC! succes, but questions! CPOP, using tea , TD..

[brewsie]

I did my first CPOP soap a few days ago. It was a success!
Soap was really hard and set up after 8 hours (put it in at 170f for an hour then left it in the turned off oven over night).

My first question:
If my oven goes down lower than 170f, should I be setting it a lower? I read a lot of people CAN'T get lower than 170f, so that's what they use... but I can go down to about 140-150f on the 'warm' setting.

On to the good part, the soap!
This is "fangorn" and is coconut, olive, palm, and shea butter with kombucha green tea, and essential oils of patchouli, lavender, and rosemary. i added walnut powder to the majority, and to about 1/4 i added wheat grass powder and TD to greenify/lighten it up a bit. the streaks arent exactly what i was going for.. definitely need to make equal parts green and brown next time.

I wanted to use green tea as part of my liquid, but I remembered from last time I tried that, I put the lye in the tea and it was just gross. So this time I halved the water, made my lye in distilled water and made tea to add upon mixing. Well, I guess half the water wasn't enough to dissolve all the lye, because I got this weird crystallized gooey mess a while after mixing in my lye! So I added some of the tea to that yuck to liquefy it again, which worked, but this dark colored stink-city ensued. So I ask... what's the best way to incorporate tea into soap? I want to avoid the dark stinky stuff as much as possible... should I try freezing it? How much water can I remove from my lye water while avoiding that crystally goo? Will tea always end up stinking????

Second!
I am using the titanium dioxide from brambleberry... the water AND oil dispersible one. I can never get it incorporated correctly! You can see little specks in my soap..oh poop! I have tried working it in with a bit of oil and adding at trace, and also working it in with a little lightly traced soap and then adding back into the batch. Nothing seems to break this stuff up properly for me..

Thirdly!
The CPOP did something funny to the top of my soap. It's got a thin layer of whitish crust on top. I tongue tested it and didn't die/feel a zap, but it seems to be different than the soda ash I've seen because it's pretty hard and very uniform. Is this an artifact of CPOP?

Thank you for looking

 

[judymoody]

The crust might be a result of slight overheating. Or perhaps the TD that wouldn't incorporate properly?

I infuse tea into oil just like any other herb. It works pretty well and I don't get the stinky lye issue.

 

[Dragonkaz]

Looks good!

In winter I do some CPOP and set my oven between 40 C and 50 C. I think 170 F is about 76 C and 140 F is about 60 C ... so I have my CPOP well below that. I'm have my oven low, as it's closer to the temp in my house when I soap at this time of the year ... Aussie summer.

With my TD, I work it with a little water to begin with. Then take some soap batter, soon after the lye has been mixed in, so it's very fluid. I mix it well and if necessary give it a SB when the main batter no longer needs SB. I'm not a fan of TD, but it does give great contrast in a few soaps.

Have fun!

 

[green soap]

Never use TD, so I cannot help with question 2.

I use tea a lot, or rather water infusions. The other day I used green tea, I also routinely use rosemary tea, spearmint tea, and citrus leaf teas.

All these have been uneventful, except for the citrus leaf teas. The solution turns a bright orange after adding the lye, but strangely it does not affect the color of the soap at the and. Go figure.

My concern with kombucha is that it has a certain amount of acididty. The culture converts the sugar and black tea into acid, among many other compounds. Some kombuchas have more acid than others, depending on how far it is in the fermentation process. The acid in your kombucha will react with the lye and neutralize it to some extent. Meaning that some of the lye will combine with the kombucha acid and make a salt. This is probably some of what was going on when you mixed tea and lye. That lye that reacted will then no longer be available to make soap, so your superfat will be higher than you set it for. So you will be a little lye deficient. This might be just a small effect, and it might not matter, all depending on how much acid was in the kombucha. If the soap does not feel really greasy then it is probably OK. Always better to have excess fat rather than excess lye!

So besides the acid, some kombuchas still have a little sugar. This could cause browning of the solution, as the lye heats the sugar. So in between the reaction of the acid and the NaOH plus the heating of the residual sugars, you had a lot going on in that lye container! If you decide that the amount of acid is not affecting your soap and you do this again, freeze the kombucha into ice cubes, and put the lye directly into the tea ice cubes, mixing diligently until it is all uniform. This will somewhat solve the overheating sugar problem.

The white 'rind' I get often, and very often if I use indigo as a colorant. It seems to be that oxygen inhibits the action of some of the colorants on the soap surface. It is possible that this action is more pronounced in a warm oven. Hopefully someone has a more detailed explanation. I have found that it is not harmful, I even like the look it gives to the soaps now.

 

[IrishLass]

I think your soap looks lovely. You may not have planned for the streaks, but I realy like them. It makes your soap look like a natural stone of some sort. I would call that a happy accident.

I've never soaped with teas or infusions, so I will leave that to those that do.

As for the TD- it's a bugger for me to incorporate unless I take my stickblender to it. I have the water dispersable kind. If I am using it to whiten my whole batch, I mix it in with a little bit of water that I set aside from my total water amount, and then I pour the mixture into my oils (before the lye is added) and stickblend the bejeebees out of it. After I add the lye, it gets stickblended off and on even more, and usually it stays nicely blended as I'm bringing things to trace. I say 'usually', because with a couple of my FOs it tries to come out of suspension as I'm mixing for some reason. It's only with those couple of FOs, though. It works well and stays nicely blended with all my other FOS. Weird.

If I'm adding TD to only part of my batch, I mix it with a little water in a plastic measuring cup, and then I add however much emulsified batter to it that I need for whatever I'm doing, and stickblend well.

As for the 'crust', it could be like judmoody said- the results of slight overheating. If it doesn't zap and you don't believe it to be soda ash, other possibilities as to its identity could be soap crystals that have separated from the main body of soap, or impurities separating out from additives such as clays, etc.. (that's according to Dr. Kevin Dunn in his book Scientific Soapmaking, pages 251 -252)


IrishLass

 

[Lady Scrubbins]

Although I have not experimented with TD, I do have a suggestion for an approach to breaking up the lumps.

Sounds to me like there is a similar problem when making soups or sauces when you try to incorporate the flour. If you just dump 1/4 cup (or whatever) of flour into a few quarts of liquid, you get LuMpS. Hateful, ornery lumps.

The classic solution for this is to take your flour (same 1/4 cup, let's say), and slowly add liquid to it, generally about a tablespoon at a time. Doesn't matter if it is milk, water, melted butter, etc., then mash it with a spoon or fork. You will start out with a really dry paste, then a not-so-dry paste, then just paste, then a semi-moist paste, and so on until you end up with a thick liquid that will disperse into the final amount.

It's a lot of work, but it is very effective. Try it out and please let us all know. I'd suggest you have this paste prepared before you add lye to fat, it does take some time. Try it out with flour and water first, so you can interpret my pre-coffee instructions, and get a feel for it with cheaper ingredients.

 

[Mellifera]

I don't use TD, but with clays and the like, a milk frother works wonders. Smooths it all right out.

 

[Sue Bear]

As I mentioned in another post, oil based TD (what I use) needs time to SOAK. Once you allow it to soak in an oil base it marries nicely into a smooth creamy blend. You need to make up a TD/oil mixture with a lid so you always have it on hand when needed. I found that putting TD in oil just prior to making a batch does not give the TD a chance to really absorb and blend with the carrier oil.

 

[new12soap]

That is interesting! I too have TD that is both oil and water dispersible, should that be mixed in advance? How much to what ratio of oil? And if making a quantity to keep on hand, what is the best oil to use?

 

[Sue Bear]

That is interesting! I too have TD that is both oil and water dispersible, should that be mixed in advance? How much to what ratio of oil? And if making a quantity to keep on hand, what is the best oil to use?

I have not tried this with the water & oil TD so can't help there. When I mix up a batch there is no SET ratio. I just use about 4 tbs, into about 1/2 cup of olive oil and mix well. When I go to use it later the TD settles in the bottom of the oil but all it requires is a quick stir and the oil mixture will turn bright white. Then I just scoop out 1 - 2 tsp. of the white oil into my batch. When my TD mixture gets low I just add more TD and oil so I always have it ready.

 

[brewsie]

Once you allow it to soak in an oil base it marries nicely into a smooth creamy blend.

I never knew of this and I am definitely going to try it next time. Very nice suggestion!

 

[SueSoap]

I really love the names you give to your soaps. Very creative.

 

[countymounty22]

Re: new soap! PIC! succes, but questions! CPOP, using tea ,

If you don't mind tea leaving streaks in your soap just mix it in gradually before you pour it into the molds. I have used chamomile and lavender tea. If you are going for looks, soak the tea then mix it into your batch. I have found that just pouring it in straight from the bag gives your bar a scrubby feeling in the shower which I like. I have never had a problem with it smelling.

 

[SudsyKat]

Re: new soap! PIC! succes, but questions! CPOP, using tea ,

Thanks for asking the question about TD because I've always had a problem with it as well. I will try the premixing thing - sounds like it really works. And I agree that your soap is very cool looking, despite the fact that it didn't come out exactly as planned. I like it!