Obsidian
Well-Known Member
What is commercial steric? Mine comes from MMS https://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Stearic-Acid.html
My first shaving soap is a success!
- Thread starter songwind
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There was a discussion about the different types of stearic acid - I can't remember where, but a site search on stearic acid commercial might well help. Look for things talking about the palm and stearic amounts.
As for the recipe, I only used 7% glycerine with a 3 or 5% sf. No fancy butters, just a standard lye discount. I find it slightly drying, but then I did not use enough glycerin.
You could of course sf with butters, but it won't be needed
As for the recipe, I only used 7% glycerine with a 3 or 5% sf. No fancy butters, just a standard lye discount. I find it slightly drying, but then I did not use enough glycerin.
You could of course sf with butters, but it won't be needed
It is just that my stearic acid was not 100% stearic acid but a mixture of palmitic and stearic, but i managed myself to get 100% stearic and did my recipe with that.
According to the MSDS yours is 100% stearic acid.
Cheers
Last edited:
Hello!
I gave a second try to the recipe using the two steps procedure and a concentration of KOH of 25% and it did improve a lot!! the mixture was much easier to work with!! I also controlled the temperature to be sure that I would not reach temperatures below the melting point of the stearic acid so did not find any cloggs this time.
I repeated again the experiment just to see if adding water after cooking would help working with the mixture, well, it did not turn out very well and suprinsingly the mixture became harder....
Btw, I measured the pH before the cooking and was already 9-10 so apparently there is not need for this step.
Cheers
Vero
I gave a second try to the recipe using the two steps procedure and a concentration of KOH of 25% and it did improve a lot!! the mixture was much easier to work with!! I also controlled the temperature to be sure that I would not reach temperatures below the melting point of the stearic acid so did not find any cloggs this time.
I repeated again the experiment just to see if adding water after cooking would help working with the mixture, well, it did not turn out very well and suprinsingly the mixture became harder....
Btw, I measured the pH before the cooking and was already 9-10 so apparently there is not need for this step.
Cheers
Vero
I find it very drying. All of the MdC clones are not very conditioning. Catie's Bubbles and WSP come to mind. The soap makers that use some conditioning oils and/or butters are a little better in terms of face feel but not much.
Sure, they lather like a dream but so does a good tallow like Cold River Soap Works, Jabonman and MWF once you get it "dialed in". I like the lather of tallow better, so creamy!
Not everyone will have the same opinion or experience with the coconut oil soaps and that's fine. Some love them, some don't.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
The soap being hard when put in tins is just what shaving soap does/is. I glop it in and smooth with he back of a large SS spoon and it's just fine.
I don't think you did anything wrong. I use 33% and by the time my HP is done (2 hrs) nearly all of the water has cooked out. If I don't get it in tins when hot it's a rough process.
I use a 5% SF of "special oils" and that helps in this respect (done after the cook). Yes, the "pure" clones are not conditioning at all, but an after-shave milk really does wonders in this area.
If your razor is clogging it's more likely to be that you are not using enough water. The lather is there to hold moisture against your skin. While the "lather p0rn" (can you believe that word is censored out?!) photos are pretty, that's not the lather you should be putting on your face. Experiment with the soap, keep adding water till it completely falls apart, then back up a drop. After properly worked up the lather should be more yogurt than whipped cream. I shave with a straight and it's very easy to tell when rinsing if there's not enough water. You can probably try the same with the back of a spoon or a bread knife. It should rinse easily, and not require rubbing or a "stream" of water.
CO has nice properties but I agree, it should not be a CO soap for shaving - ideally. Jabonman is a little on the heavy side with moisturizers I think but that is a personal choice. I like to finish about the same as I started, and if I need conditioning I'll add it after.
I use plastic jars....no glass for any of my products.
I'll try the original MdC tonight again - I don't use it often (my own soap is preferred!) and will feed back on it compared to mine.
I will also be playing with a 65/35 or 70/30 mix of SA and CO as I think that is closer to what MdC might be. I don't feel that the original idea of close to 50/50 SA/CO is right, so will try it out.
Will also be trying out 50/35/15 SA/xyz/CO where xyz is palm, lard and tallow to see how it works out. As my original also needs some tweaking (increased glycerine, adding in citric acid) I'll make a control batch with 50% SA, 25% lard and 25% CO to compare. Just rendered some tallow to have a play with it (alhtough I hope it doesn't make too much difference over palm, as tallow is impossible to buy here)
I will also be playing with a 65/35 or 70/30 mix of SA and CO as I think that is closer to what MdC might be. I don't feel that the original idea of close to 50/50 SA/CO is right, so will try it out.
Will also be trying out 50/35/15 SA/xyz/CO where xyz is palm, lard and tallow to see how it works out. As my original also needs some tweaking (increased glycerine, adding in citric acid) I'll make a control batch with 50% SA, 25% lard and 25% CO to compare. Just rendered some tallow to have a play with it (alhtough I hope it doesn't make too much difference over palm, as tallow is impossible to buy here)
LBussy
Well-Known Member
You would be AMAZED at how spry a half-asleep middle-aged man can be when properly motivated.
Adds new meaning to the phrase "that was a close shave" :Kitten Love:
Just had a shave with the MdC. I remember why I don't use it very much. Neck was torn to pieces and skin does feel a bit dry. Maybe not more so than with my soap, maybe even a touch less (but not $70 worth!) but the performance is just not there for me. I last shaved Saturday AM, so it's been 2.5 days between shaves - I did 1 pass with the grain and then 1 pass across the grain on the cheeks, against the grain on the neck. Sometimes I'll have a few weepers (little spots of raw skin that weep a bit of blood) but with this soap it looked like I'd been garroted with barbed wire. :-(
Maybe I would just need to give it time dialing it in, but I just feel that all that CO leaves it too bubbly to start with, putting me on the back foot from the off. Using less CO is, I think, better by far.
The lather tonight
The lather with my soap (I think this was also the pure KOH soap) for comparison
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
I've heard that MdC is one of the best, I'm surprised by the sad fluffy lather. Your soap looks much better. My shave soap only has 9% coconut, take a bit of effort to work up a thick lather but it does get there.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
It's tough to tell with pics but the MdC looks as if it's not worked up enough. Also try just adding more water till it start to run a *tiny* bit. It is not a moisturizing soap but it's not a sub-par one either.
I spent more time on the MdC than on mine. It's certainly not a subpar soap, but it lost certainly is not worth the asking price - even if I didn't make soap myself, there are cheaper and better soaps out there. I think it is over hyped on B&B and that the 35% that I used last time is more than I will use again
LBussy
Well-Known Member
IIRC MdC is one of the soaps without anything to counteract hard wat5er. That may explain why some work better than other for folks. I find it to be a great soap but NWIH I'd pay $65 for it.
Interesting discussion about MdC. I had assumed the 50/50 soap we made here and at B and B was as good a copy as possible. Regardless, the 50/50 recipe is very easy to lather and with the 15% by oil weight in added glycerin, the soap leaves my face feeling pretty good.
That said, while the tallow Williams clone I make is slightly more work to make a lather, nothing beats the creamy slickness imparted by the tallow I am considering adding some lanolin to my recipe...might be a great combo.
That said, while the tallow Williams clone I make is slightly more work to make a lather, nothing beats the creamy slickness imparted by the tallow I am considering adding some lanolin to my recipe...might be a great combo.
Watch for the irritation some people feel with it. If it makes the soap a step-change better, awesomes. If not, it might not be worth having it in there.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
"It" being tallow? Lanolin?
The latter - as he already had the tallow in there but was considering the Lanolin. Some people don't react too well to it from what I have read - a small number, but some nonetheless.
As a general point - all ingredients in our products should bring something meaningful to the party. If the Williams clone is great already and adding in the lanolin doesn't really improve it, then why keep it in there? If when I add the citric acid to my shaving soap I don't see much of benefit then what is the point of keeping it in the recipe?
