Magnolia and Orange Blossom Soap Idea

[hmlove1218]

I have an FO called Magnolia & Orange Blossom and was trying to think of a way to incorporate something into the recipe that would go with it. I stumbled across a thread here about using lemon juice and it got me thinking. Could I use orange juice?

I researched using citrus in CP a little more and found that people are very divided about it. Some say it can be done, and some reference the Soap101 video that failed.

From what I'm understanding, the acid in citrus juices neutralizes some of the alkaline lye, which makes sense. I know that this means I should lower my SF so that it isn't too high. I usually calculate my recipes for 5% and I believe my soaps usually wind up between 6% and 7% because I round down my lye and round up my oils.

So, to make this orange juice soap, I'm figuring I should lower my SF to 1% or 2% depending on how much OJ I use. I'm scared to lower it to 0%, though, because that leaves me feeling like I have no room for error.

Now, how should I incorporate the OJ into my soap? Should I use it as my liquid? Half? Or should I just add 1-2 tbsp and discount my water however many grams?

Will the OJ color the soap any? I'd like it to be an orange-y color. Also, the magnolias will be blooming here within the next few months and I was thinking of adding dried chopped petals on top of the soap. Would they change colors?

Thank you in advance!

 

[FlybyStardancer]

I haven't tried using citrus juices in my soap yet, though I plan to! With OJ, I'd do a half-and-half mixture, and maybe lower the SF to 1-2%.

I haven't found a page that says how much citric acid is in orange juice, but this page from the NIH gives an average of citric acid found in lemon and lime juices. I just went and calculated out how much of a superfat there would have been in the Soaping101 video, assuming she used her basic bastille recipe, and from the citric acid ALONE it would have raised the superfat from 5% to 13%! And when you consider that citric acid isn't the only acid present in the juice... Yeah, the superfat was likely closer to 14-15%, if not higher. No wonder it failed to set up in in the 24 hours she claims to have given it.

 

[hmlove1218]

Thank you! So you think it would work out?

 

[neeners]

there was another thread about this somewhere......it wasn't oranges, but some kind of tangerine or something.... she calculated the extra lye she would need to neutralize the acid in the juice.....

ETA: found the post! http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=43117

 

[hmlove1218]

I forgot about that thread! I remember seeing it when she first posted it and thought it was an interesting idea. I wonder if the citric acid content is similar to oranges..

 

[FlybyStardancer]

Here's a study that looked at the citric acid content of different orange-flavored juices. It might give you an idea!

 

[hmlove1218]

Thank you! Ill check that out

 

[hmlove1218]

Yeah, the superfat was likely closer to 14-15%, if not higher. No wonder it failed to set up in in the 24 hours she claims to have given it.

Just a random thought.. How come you can soap with 20% SF in some recipes?

 

[FlybyStardancer]

Usually the bars with 20% SF are at least 80% coconut oil, if not 100%. Since coconut oil is solid at room temperature, the bars stay solid even with a high SF. In the Soaping101 case, if she was using her standard bastille, that's 75% soft oils. You need to drive off a lot of moisture and really let the soap salts from their crystals to get it to where you can unmold and hold it when you have that much liquid oil.

 

[hmlove1218]

Usually the bars with 20% SF are at least 80% coconut oil, if not 100%. Since coconut oil is solid at room temperature, the bars stay solid even with a high SF. In the Soaping101 case, if she was using her standard bastille, that's 75% soft oils. You need to drive off a lot of moisture and really let the soap salts from their crystals to get it to where you can unmold and hold it when you have that much liquid oil.

smacks forehead
I knew that..had a brain fart for a few minutes lol

 

[green soap]

I forgot about that thread! I remember seeing it when she first posted it and thought it was an interesting idea. I wonder if the citric acid content is similar to oranges..

I just updated the minneola thread. I made a soap (Sangria soap) using minneola juice (and a little bit of red wine) and it was successful. I used 3 grams more lye. I still want to make another without wine and using only essential oils for scenting.

Do you know your orange variety? it will take a little goggle action, but you can find the citric acid content of many varieties.

 

[hmlove1218]

Y'all, I'm itching to try this lol. Please double check my math.

I'm using Simply Orange but I can't find what kind of oranges they use. I'm using the study previously mentioned. Since Simply Orange is not on the list, I figure the closest is Tropicana, which has about 275mg/oz (.275g/oz) of citric acid.

In the 1lb recipe:

Castor Oil: 5%
Coconut Oil, 76 deg: 20%
Cocoa Butter: 10%
Mango Butter: 10%
Olive Oil, pomace: 55%

Water: 3.04 oz
Orange Juice: 3.04 oz

So, 0.275g X 3.04g = .836g. This means that I need .5016 more grams of lye (.836 * .6 = .5016). Or 61.9586 grams.

According to the Minneola Soap post, it takes about .6 grams of lye to neutralize one gram of citric acid.

Lye (5% SF): 2.123 oz (60.189g)
Lye (2% SF): 2.190 oz (62.090g)

So I'm going to SF at 2% knowing that I round up my oils and should get a SF of about 5% in the end, which is less than normal because I usually end up with a SF of 6%-7%.

Also, should I add in the OJ at trace?

 

[green soap]

2 % superfat seems low, since you only need another 1/2 gram NaOH, and it takes you almost 2 g to go from 2 % to 5%. I'd say just superfat at 4% (knowing it will end up being 5%).

I freeze my juice and add the lye to the frozen juice. One could add it at trace, but remember orange juice has sugars so be careful with overheating.

 

[hmlove1218]

You're right. For some reason I missed that. And I also just realized that I formulated it for 20% cocoa butter instead of 20% coconut oil.. And I've already melted all my oils. All the numbers seem fine. Will it be alright?