Lotion recipe help - or is it a mixing issue.....or.........?

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Hello all. Been a while, I know, but the Little Efficacious and Little Admirable plus other things (houses are a lot of work!) have really been taking my free time away.

I need to look at making another batch of lotion but I have had issues with the last two. They generally start of thick enough but then thin out and even start to separate. In theory the recipe seems solid (as far as I can work out) but it might be faulty. What I did consider is maybe some of the ingredients don't work well with each other, causing things to go south, so if anything there raises an alarm, please do let me know. In this case, the fragrance was a rose FO, in case that can sometimes have an impact.

The other possibility is that I don't mix it enough. I am not too sure about that as it IS thick when I think it's done. I generally stick blend for few bursts now and then, but not overly much.

Recipe (%, or just think of it as g in a 100g batch!)

61 Water
16.5 Avocado oil
10 Shea
4 Cetyl Alcohol
6 Polysorbate 80
0.5 fragrance
1 Opthiphen plus

This was supposed to be the thicker of the two lotions (I generally make a day and night cream each time I make lotion) and even that thinned out and separated.

Cheers for any advice.

 

[dixiedragon]

My understanding - and I could be wrong - is that cetyl alcohol is not an emulsifier. It's a thickening agent.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=emulsifier

 

[In My Soap Pot]

Did you heat the oil phase enough? It has to be at least 50 C or 122 F.

I would add glyceryl stearate to help stabilise the emulsion.

And maybe use poly 60 instead of 80, that could work too.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

My understanding - and I could be wrong - is that cetyl alcohol is not an emulsifier. It's a thickening agent.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=emulsifier

That's true, Dix, but I am using the Poly 60 for the emulsifier

Did you heat the oil phase enough? It has to be at least 50 C or 122 F.

I would add glyceryl stearate to help stabilise the emulsion.

And maybe use poly 60 instead of 80, that could work too.

I do heat and hold both at 70C, but the oil phase not for the longest of times. I can try a lower temp and a longer time, as the Avo oil doesn't seem to like being too hot for too long.

I would love to use the 60, but it's harder to find over here. I could try BTMS, which is only 35€ a kilo instead of the 20€ for a kilo of polysorbate 80.

 

[In My Soap Pot]

In that case see if you can find glyceryl stearate to add.

 

[Cellador]

I'm not an expert, by any means, but I remembered seeing this on SCM. Read the last couple of paragraphs on Poly 20 & 80. It's to do with the HLB system, which I honestly have no experience with, but maybe it will help.
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2009/03/lotions-emulsification-whats-that-then.html?m=1

 

[DeeAnna]

Hi, Gent! Glad to hear from you again!

I dimly recall a discussion we had several months ago where you were looking at using the polysorbate as an emulsifier. I think I was a little wary that the polysorbate alone would be sufficient for good emulsification, but it was certainly worth a try. I think your recipe is telling you that just the polysorbate is not quite enough.

Polysorbate has an HLB of about 15, but your combined oil phase has an HLB of about 8. Your emulsifier system needs to come closer to matching the oil phase HLB. So if you want to stick with the polysorbate, you need to add a second emulsifier with an HLB below 8, so the combo of the two emulsifiers can match the HLB of the oil phase.

IMSP suggested glyceryl stearate. It has an HLB of about 3.8 (edited -- originally typed 5.8 and should be 3.8), so it is certainly an option.

Another option is the BTMS and then no fussing around with HLB will be required.

 

[dixiedragon]

^ I was totally going to say that. j/j

Is there a reason you don't want to use e-wax? Gracefruit carries it, and I think they are a supplier you use?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Hmmm, glyceryl stearate is an option. A mix of that at the poly 80 to get to around 8?

I haven't used gracefruit. Not sure what the shipping to Austria would be like and if it would just be worthwhile using the good (but crushingly expensive) Olivem.

 

[IrishLass]

I have nothing to add, but just wanted to pop-in to say a quick 'Hello- it's good to see you again!'. Okay- popping back out now.


IrishLass

 

[DeeAnna]

I rummaged through my files and found a nice lotion calculator spreadsheet from The Herbarie. You might find it helpful, Gent.

I take zero credit for the work done to create this spreadsheet -- thank the Herbarie for graciously providing the basic content. I just made the formulas work a little more efficiently and edited the formatting and text instructions. I take full responsibility for any and all errors -- if you have any questions or find mistakes, please let me know.

edit 3/9/2018, 7:19 p.m.: Edited the spreadsheet a bit more, but only cosmetic changes.

edit 3/10/2018, 9:07 a.m.: Wups, I made a small mistake. In cell B39, the formula should be =SUM(B4:B38) The file (below) has been updated with this correction.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Thanks, DeeAnna, that's fab (thanks for sharing and making it pretty). So I'll get some glyceryl stearate and mix with the poly 80 to get the target HLB, then I'll try again

 

[DeeAnna]

I found a small mistake, although it's very unlikely it would affect the calculations for your recipe, Gent.

If anyone has made a copy of the HLB calc file already, please download a fresh copy. Or you can correct the error as noted in my previous post if you like.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I'll.most likely be taking the pertinent parts in to my general spreadsheet, so I'll keep an eye out for that. Thanks for the heads-up

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I have a PDF of Convergent Cosmetics HLB System but I don't seem to be able to upload it.

HLBSystem.pdf

I'm happy to send it by Email if anyone's interested.

[email protected]

ETA: Here is a standard Ewax that most suppliers carry and saves the "by guess & by golly" aspect of the HLB system.

EMULSIFYING WAX NF (Ingredients: Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, PEG-150 Stearate & Steareth-20). It is used to bind oil and water together in creams, lotions etc. It is a white waxy solid with a low fatty alcohol odor. It has the characteristics of cetyl alcohol combined with the viscosity building effect of stearyl alcohol as an effective thickener and helps form extremely stable emulsions in either w/o or o/w preparations.

ETA: Heat & Hold Lotion Making Method:

1. Heat water phase to 170°F (77°C), hold for 20 minutes.
2. Heat oil phase to 170°F (77°C). Gently stir. Cover and hold.
3. Combine. Keep stick blender near the bottom and blend.
4. Stop blending briefly. Place bowl into a cold water bath in sink. SB until thickened, incorporated and cooled. (about 2-3 minutes.)
5. Check weight. Add more water if necessary.
6. Place back into the cold water bath and mix to 95°-100°F this should take no more than 1-3 minutes more. Remove the pot from the water and place on the counter.
7. Add preservative and mix well. Add fragrance now or later. Let set until completely cool. Do not cover. Pour into ZipLoc to dispense.

ETA: Interesting Blog
6 REASONS WHY THE HEAT & HOLD METHOD IS A MYTH
https://formulabotanica.com/6-reasons-why-the-heat-and-hold-method-is-a-myth/