Is there a shampoo bar thread? ... and, regarding conditioner bars

Discussion in 'Beginners Soap Making Forum' started by LionLady, Oct 25, 2018.

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  1. Oct 25, 2018 #1

    LionLady

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    Okay. Please move this if there's a better place for it.

    I was on vacation for a week and a half, then have worked 7 days in a row after coming back. Just finally getting back to my normal routine.

    I started making soap in order to make shampoo bars for my short, fine, straight hair. For travel and at home. I've been bitten by the soaping bug, it's fun! As anyone who has perhaps used a bar for shampooing, the suggested after shampoo "rinse" is apple cider vinegar. I've found a coconut milk after shampoo spray recipe (mommypotamus.com), but neither of those travels well. I bought a Lush brand conditioner bar, but it didn't do much for me, even with my short hair.

    So I've been looking for a DIY conditioner bar recipe. Found one and made it after getting back from Key West (saponista). It is lovely, and works very well, now I'm ready to explore. Another recipe I found uses orange wax for amazing fragrance (humblebeeandme). I can't wait to try making that one.

    I found a zombie thread here about orange wax - last posted to in 2013. I've got orange wax on hand now, and am thinking it would be wonderful in a soap bar as well.

    So, does anybody else, here dabble in conditioner bars as a pairing for shampoo soap bars?
     
  2. Oct 25, 2018 #2

    shunt2011

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  3. Oct 25, 2018 #3

    Dean

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    Orange wax made ugly stinky bars for me. I threw out the wax after one batch.
     
  4. Oct 25, 2018 #4

    DeeAnna

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    I make and use a conditioner bar as well as a synthetic detergent shampoo bar. I can't say I'm the world's expert on making a nice syndet shampoo bar as the first link in Shari's post will show you, but the conditioner bar works fine for me.

    If you need a lot of conditioning to make your hair manageable, you're going to be happier with a liquid product, not a bar. A bar conditioner doesn't put a lot of product on the hair unless you really scrub it over your hair, so it is best at providing light conditioning.

    I'm not too keen on the idea of using wax in a syndet conditioner or shampoo bar, because what's in these bars is going to end up on your hair. Wax might be fine in a bath bar or lotion, but it's not something I want on my hair, to be honest.

    If you feel the need to make a soap-based shampoo bar (been there, won't do that again!), the wax might saponify enough to work okay. I'm still skeptical since I know most waxes (jojoba, beeswax) don't saponify well, so, again, what's in the wax is going to end up on your hair.

    If you want to try orange wax, maybe try it in a regular batch of soap first and see what you think?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  5. Oct 25, 2018 #5

    kathi

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    As a hairdresser of 30 years, the idea of using anything high in wax in shampoo raises flags. If it coats the hair (Which I have seen on many occasions) it will block the hair strands from absorbing the beneficial oils and water that are necessary to keep hair healthy. Not to mention a build up of wax on your scalp can lead to other issues. I so far haven't seen shampoo bars that are effective in the long run. I hope I'm wrong and someone has a great recipe because I would love to try one.
     
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  6. Nov 29, 2018 #6

    LionLady

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    I've been using my own shampoo bars for almost 2 years - I've got fine, thin hair and I haven't noticed any "waxy buildup." I use apple cider vinegar as a rinse (to close follicles), followed by a moisturizing coconut milk spray. My hair is short, so perhaps that's the difference - no length to accumulate damage.

    The orange wax soap worked, but I'm disinclined to use it as a shampoo bar. It smells heavenly and will be nice in the kitchen. Will need to reformulate, if I decide to try again. It did make a lovely orange scented conditioning bar!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  7. Dec 2, 2018 #7

    SoaperForLife

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    I use orange wax in my cold process gardener's bar but I am using it for the orange fragrance so it only takes a tiny bit. If you want an orange scented soap, the wax will give you that and it never seems to fade.
     
  8. Dec 7, 2018 #8

    Ravens Craig Apothecary

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    I have been asked to delve into shampoo bars for the people I make soap bars for. I read the above posts and am now unsure. Same with conditioner bars. Are there good liquid shampoo and conditioner recipes anywhere here I could try? I have searched the 'net but am sometimes leery of the ingredients or credibility of the sources.....
     
  9. Dec 7, 2018 #9

    cmzaha

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    I one hundred percent agree with Kathi, I am a retired hairdresser and what she points out above is very true. There is also the ph issue of "soap" when can damage hair. The soap may make fine hair seems fuller and fluffy, but that is damage happening from the raising of the hair cuticle. You may use vinegar to fix ph and smooth the cuticle but the soap has already entered the hair shaft. This is how perms and coloring work.

    I would never ever sell a soap bar for shampoo and risk damaging someone's hair. If a person has short hair that is cut regularly that is different, but you cannot know who the customer is going to give the "soap" shampoo bar to. If you do a search here you will find several threads relating to this subject. Here is one link
    https://tinyurl.com/y76o8qaa
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  10. Dec 7, 2018 #10

    Ravens Craig Apothecary

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    Are you saying you would never sell a soap bar and call it a shampoo bar, or that you would never sell a shampoo bar. Sorry... I get confused easily with written word.
     
  11. Dec 7, 2018 #11

    lsg

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  12. Dec 7, 2018 #12

    redhead1226

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    The orange was I bought is really not a wax and Im not sure why they call it this. Its a liquid and smells delicious! Like fresh oranges. I use it in many things. But it is not a wax as far as Im concerned. Or does it act like one.
     
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  13. Dec 7, 2018 #13

    zanzalawi

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    i've been wondering about this- so then a conditioner bar would be a pretty poor substitute for people who dont use shampoo and just co-wash (conditioner to wash the hair)?

    edit- but maybe since the hair isnt being shampooed it wont need as much conditioning so light conditioning would be enough? pssh. i'm a cowasher. i just need to find a conditioner bar recipe and try it out lol
     
  14. Dec 7, 2018 #14

    cmzaha

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    I would never call a lye based soap bar Shampoo and sell it. I make a syndet shampoo bar which is actually shampoo not soap. So the answer is I would never sell "Soap" labeled as shampoo. Why would I want to risk damaging a person's hair.
     
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  15. Dec 9, 2018 #15

    MickeyRat

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    I've only been making soap for about 8 months and in that time I've made and use shampoo bars. So, remember I'm a noob and this advice could be bad. I'm also a man which makes my advice worse. I do have a full head of hair though. I've read that the PH in soap is bad for the hair so I believe it has to be coupled with the right rinse to work well. My other belief and experience is that commercial products and handmade products don't seem to play well together. My hair looked oily for a few weeks after I switched. So, two recipes.

    My shampoo bars.

    Castor 20%
    CO 76 30%
    Jojoba 5%
    Lard 30%
    OO 15%

    5% superfat. Add the same amount of tea tree oil as jojoba. The jojoba and tea tree get added at trace. Palm oil works as well as lard but, lard is cheap and plentiful here.

    My rinse

    1 cup water
    1 tbsp Apple Cider Vinegar
    6 drops rosemary essential oil
    6 drops tea tree oil
    3 drops jojoba

    The rinse goes on when my hair is still wet. I spray it on, work it in and leave it in.

    That works well for me. Now if someone thinks this is the wrong thing to do please say so. I've been doing it for a while.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  16. Dec 10, 2018 #16

    amd

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    I somewhat co-washed for about six months - I had a weird schedule of co-washing every 4 days and using a syndet shampoo bar in between (so I was still only washing my hair every other day). What I read about co-washing, and what I'm assuming about conditioner bars leads me to believe they wouldn't work as well. I'm thinking a conditioner bar will be a mostly oil, wax and silicone combination. All three of which should be avoided in co-washing (or at least present in lesser amounts in the conditioner). For co-washing, I think a liquid conditioner will still be the better choice.
     
  17. Dec 10, 2018 #17

    DeeAnna

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    I know absolutely nothing about "co-washing" so I can't help you there, @zanzalawi .

    @redhead1226 -- Waxes can be liquids or soft pastes as well as solids. Jojoba is a liquid wax, for example. At first glance, jojoba feels and acts pretty much like a regular soaping oil ... until you actually try to soap with it.
     
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