Quantcast

I want to try a basic two tone swirl

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

kc1ble

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
145
Reaction score
101
Location
Concord, Vermont
Here is my plan, White"ish" as I can get it with titanium dioxide on bottom, black with activated charcoal on the bottom. I want a mild swirl design in the center of the loaf combining the black and white with light streaks. I will be trying Eucalyptus & Spearmint* FO 101 from WSP.

My plan is to mix the batch with lye and FO, then separate and color each half accordingly. Then pour each color and try to keep the black above the white without mixing them. Then probably using a coat hanger to create a somewhat delicate, basic swirl.

The recipe is as follows:

30% Palm Oil
25% Olive Oil
25% Coconut Oil 76*
15% Palm Kernel Oil
5% Castor Oil

5% Super fat
38% water

1.25 oz FO

I'm not sure of the amounts of Titanium Dioxide and activated charcoal yet, gotta do more research.

What can I do to buy myself the most amount of time while separating the batch and coloring it? I know its probably risky using a new FO and colors that I've never used before to try this, but if any of your experiences can help me I would appreciate it. This will be only my third batch and I want to try something a little more challenging. Thanks for your help.
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
8,980
Reaction score
9,070
Location
Austria
If it's an untried FO, let us know which one and where it's from - people can let you know if it might go and play tricks on you
 

shunt2011

Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
15,439
Reaction score
9,708
Location
Michigan
I've used a few Eucalyptus Mint FOs with no problem. I've not used that particular one. Read the reviews on their website and plan accordingly. If you use too much TD your batter will thicken quicker. I would however lower your CO/palm kernel a bit though. You've got 40% cleansing power there.
 

penelopejane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
4,154
Location
Sth Coast, NSW, Australia
It is Eucalyptus & Spearmint* FO 101 from WSP. According to the reviews it is well behaved.
You don't need much TD. 1 tbsp of TD in 2 lb of oils was too much for me in a similar recipe and may show glycerine rivers depending on water discount. I'd try 1tsp ppo as that works for me. You are separating your batter so adjust accordingly.

http://auntieclaras.com/2014/05/glycerine-rivers-secret-revealed/

Personally I would up the OO a bit as this will be a pretty drying bar. Good and hard though :)
 
Last edited:

kc1ble

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
145
Reaction score
101
Location
Concord, Vermont
You don't need much TD. 1 tbsp of TD in 2 lb of oils was too much for me in a similar recipe and created glycerine rivers. I'd try 1tsp ppo as that works for me. You are separating your batter so adjust accordingly.

Personally I would up the OO a bit as this will be a pretty drying bar. Good and hard though :)
As a newbie to soap making, I don't understand what is making this a drying bar, Is it the "Cleansing" number in soapcalc?
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,117
Reaction score
5,376
I agree about decreasing the CO and PKO percentages. If you want a slower tracing bar, I would increase the OO by whatever percentage you drop the cleansing oils. If you worry about the bubblage, add a bit of sugar to your water.

Both TD and AC will cause your batter to thicken faster than some other colorants. It helps to mix them ahead of time in water or oil and let them soak. Also, don't SB too much before you pour out for your colors- go to just emulsion. You will have to stir in your colors and you can then SB each from there to the trace you want. If you SB too much before splitting your batter, there is no going back.

Yes, the cleansing number indicates how well the recipe will strip oils from the skin. All soap will do so, but the higher that number, the more drying it will be. FOr some people, that high of a number doesn't bother them, but for many, it would leave their skin tight and dry.

For instance, you could try:

45% OO
30% Palm
10% CO
10% PKO
5% Castor
 
Last edited:

kc1ble

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
145
Reaction score
101
Location
Concord, Vermont
I agree about decreasing the CO and PKO percentages. If you want a slower tracing bar, I would increase the OO by whatever percentage you drop the cleansing oils. If you worry about the bubblage, add a bit of sugar to your water.

Both TD and AC will cause your batter to thicken faster than some other colorants. It helps to mix them ahead of time in water or oil and let them soak. Also, don't SB too much before you pour out for your colors- go to just emulsion. You will have to stir in your colors and you can then SB each from there to the trace you want. If you SB too much before splitting your batter, there is no going back.

Yes, the cleansing number indicates how well the recipe will strip oils from the skin. All soap will do so, but the higher that number, the more drying it will be. FOr some people, that high of a number doesn't bother them, but for many, it would leave their skin tight and dry.

For instance, you could try:

45% OO
30% Palm
10% CO
10% PKO
5% Castor
Ok, thank you for this information, mixing to emulsion and not trace before splitting is the kind of thing I needed to know, I will adjust my oils in soapcalc and see how the numbers change. So much to learn lol.

I've also read that using flat beer in my lye water increases "bublage" Has anyone tried this and does it really work?
 

kchaystack

Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
1,906
Reaction score
2,078
Location
Monroe, LA
You don't need much TD. 1 tbsp of TD in 2 lb of oils was too much for me in a similar recipe and created glycerine rivers. I'd try 1tsp ppo as that works for me. You are separating your batter so adjust accordingly.
TD does not cause 'glycerine rivers'. They are just easier to see in white soap.Auntie Clara and several people on this forum have done these experiments, and the info is pretty easy to find.
 

Rowan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
833
Reaction score
520
Location
UK
Beer produces a lovely bubbly soap but it has a tendency to accelerate and overheat the batter, even to the point it could volcano. IMHO it's too risky to try this and attempt to swirl at the same time so early in your soaping journey. I would do a fair bit of reading before attempting a beer soap, but it's definitely worth trying in the future!

As Newbie said, adding sugar increases the bubbles and it's still easy swirl.
 

kc1ble

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
145
Reaction score
101
Location
Concord, Vermont
Beer produces a lovely bubbly soap but it has a tendency to accelerate and overheat the batter, even to the point it could volcano. IMHO it's too risky to try this and attempt to swirl at the same time so early in your soaping journey. I would do a fair bit of reading before attempting a beer soap, but it's definitely worth trying in the future!

As Newbie said, adding sugar increases the bubbles and it's still easy swirl.
Thanks for the warning, I'll save the beer for another time then.
 

snappyllama

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
3,910
Reaction score
3,039
Location
Near Charlotte NC
Excellent responses!

You might want to pull a small amount out of your olive oil out to premix your AC and TD. Those can be hard to mix in when they are dry. Also, a little AC goes a long way. If you overdo it, you'll end up with gray lather. I normally eyeball it... using just enough to give me the shade I'm after.
 

penelopejane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
4,154
Location
Sth Coast, NSW, Australia
TD does not cause 'glycerine rivers'. They are just easier to see in white soap.Auntie Clara and several people on this forum have done these experiments, and the info is pretty easy to find.
Oops ok. Thanks for that. I have corrected my post and added a link to Auntie Clara. That's the only time it happened to me, sorry for the wrong info.
 
Last edited:

topofmurrayhill

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
1,183
Reaction score
1,417
Location
New York City
Here is my plan, White"ish" as I can get it with titanium dioxide on bottom, black with activated charcoal on the bottom. I want a mild swirl design in the center of the loaf combining the black and white with light streaks. I will be trying Eucalyptus & Spearmint* FO 101 from WSP.

My plan is to mix the batch with lye and FO, then separate and color each half accordingly. Then pour each color and try to keep the black above the white without mixing them. Then probably using a coat hanger to create a somewhat delicate, basic swirl.

The recipe is as follows:

30% Palm Oil
25% Olive Oil
25% Coconut Oil 76*
15% Palm Kernel Oil
5% Castor Oil

5% Super fat
38% water

1.25 oz FO

I'm not sure of the amounts of Titanium Dioxide and activated charcoal yet, gotta do more research.

What can I do to buy myself the most amount of time while separating the batch and coloring it? I know its probably risky using a new FO and colors that I've never used before to try this, but if any of your experiences can help me I would appreciate it. This will be only my third batch and I want to try something a little more challenging. Thanks for your help.
If I may offer my angle on the CO/PKO matter, you can think of them as the same type of oil and interchangeable with each other. One can always be substituted for the other or they can be used in combination. You just have to consider the total of both when deciding how much to use. The guideline for those oils is no more than 30% of the recipe, individually or in combination. Your 40% total would in most cases be noticeably drying.

Even though they are nominally interchangeable, the properties they impart to the soap are subtly different. Using one or the other or both is a matter of personal choice, convenience or whatever.

Any number of pigments can bring out the visual effect of "glycerin rivers" when the soap goes through the gel phase. Some say it also appears in soaps with higher amounts of water. However, these explanations are probably one and the same. High water soaps (low lye concentration) go into gel phase easily and low water (high lye concentration) soaps don't gel at all. At this point, I am assuming pigment + full gel is what causes it. Pigment doesn't dissolve in oil or water, so as the soap changes phase the pigments become unevenly dispersed in an interesting pattern related to how the soap crystals form. If you want to avoid it, less water is your best bet, but not everyone minds the effect.

Researching TD and AC usage rates will probably give you a headache. I suggest 1 tsp ppo TD and 3 tsp (1 TBS) ppo AC for a decent black and white effect. That is based only on the portion you are coloring, so for instance a 2 lb oil batch with the batter divided 50/50 gets 1 tsp TD for one half and 1 TBS AC for the other.

Note that it can be difficult to get a satisfying black and keep the lather snow white. At the usage rate I suggested, the lather on your hands may not be noticeable darker, but when it drips into a white sink it might look like you're washing slightly dirty hands. That's life unless you prefer grey. These usage rates are also not far from the point where you start to notice a slight scrubby effect from the pigments. It's subtle and personally I kind of like it.

Now, if you aren't overly concerned about the side effects I mentioned, and you want to go extreme sports style with the B&W, you can try 1 1/2 tsp TD and 4 tsp AC ppo.

Note that TD comes in water dispersable and oil dispersable forms, so be aware of what you have and proceed accordingly.

Trying a new FO and trying a new swirl are two entirely different things to do. Be smart, don't do them both, because the pain is that much greater when you get soap on a stick. If you can't get reliable accounts from others of how the FO behaves, either use one that you know or don't get your heart set on how cool your soap is going to look.

Hope some of this helps.
 

BrewerGeorge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
1,899
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
I don't mind the gray lather, but the AC will also be visible on light washclothes, sort of "staining" them even after they're rinsed. I've had two different friends and family I gave black bars to remark on that issue.

As for the swirl, it sounds like you're talking about layering the two colors horizontally. It would be easier to put a divider down the center of your mold and layer them vertically. The swirl (after pulling the divider) would be done from the top with a skewer - that you could see - rather than having to be done blind on the inside with a hangar. Depending on your mold shape that would make a right-left division in the finished soap instead of a top-bottom division, but it would be A LOT easier for the first try, IMO.
 

kc1ble

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
145
Reaction score
101
Location
Concord, Vermont
I don't mind the gray lather, but the AC will also be visible on light washclothes, sort of "staining" them even after they're rinsed. I've had two different friends and family I gave black bars to remark on that issue.

As for the swirl, it sounds like you're talking about layering the two colors horizontally. It would be easier to put a divider down the center of your mold and layer them vertically. The swirl (after pulling the divider) would be done from the top with a skewer - that you could see - rather than having to be done blind on the inside with a hangar. Depending on your mold shape that would make a right-left division in the finished soap instead of a top-bottom division, but it would be A LOT easier for the first try, IMO.
I like this idea, I never thought of trying it that way, I may give it a try.
 

penelopejane

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
4,154
Location
Sth Coast, NSW, Australia
I like this idea, I never thought of trying it that way, I may give it a try.
It's not as difficult as it sounds. It's how I did the black and white one. It's a bit messy though cos when you pull out the dividers a bit of soap sticks to them.
Good luck with whichever method you choose. Post pictures :)
 

Latest posts

Top